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Author Topic:   Should countries outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka?
Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 46 of 372 (771226)
10-22-2015 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:06 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
My position is led by my own thinking and listening to Muslim women.
You mean... like us? I worked closely with a muslim woman who wore the hijab. In fact she was my superior at that time. She's a wonderful woman who I can tell you wasn't inferior to any man, not even her husband. I heard her talk to him on the phone, trust me when I say she didn't sound like a slave.
You will note that the Canadian government is not in favor of what I propose.
No shit! You propose to destroy the Charter of Rights!
I recognize why the Liberals chose to put getting elected ahead of opening up this can of worms at the present time but hope they just lied about what they truly believe and step up to insuring that all Muslim women share in the freedoms that good Canadians have died for to give us.
You realize Justin Trudeau is the son of former Prime Minister Pierre-Elliot Trudeau, the father of the Charter of Rights...right? Are you telling us you would prefer a lying government to some women who chose to wear a piece of clothing? And you're the same person who suggested we should see a doctor...
Free people do not tolerate slavery in their land. Even if the slave says she is freely giving up her freedom. If she wishes to act like a slave, let her emigrate where men enjoy and promote ownership of women and slavery. That is not in Canada.
You want to suppress their rights and call yourself anti-slavery. Now that is certainly NOT Canada.
Oh and a reminder (again)... You were talking about honor killings remember?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:06 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 4:34 PM Bliyaal has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 47 of 372 (771234)
10-22-2015 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:30 PM


Re: Sisters are doing it for themselves.
GIA writes:
Omnivorous
Perhaps you know of some society where gender equality has been perfected"
Not yet but Canada is one of the closest and that is why our cultural norms must be protected from Muslim norms.
To quote a great Canadian, "The trouble with normal is it always gets worse."
Since it's Canadian human rights you want to abridge in the name of freedom--you know, to keep freedom safe--I'll leave you to their tender mercies.
Anyway, say something once, why say it again?

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:30 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(1)
Message 48 of 372 (771237)
10-22-2015 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:06 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Hi, Greatest I Am.
GIA writes:
I hear those who say that some women claim that they freely wear the hijab, niqab and burka. If that is true then I would suggest that they see a doctor as that is not normal behavior for a free human being. Women and men instinctively know and look for body language while communicating and such apparel inhibits that.
Why paint with such broad strokes of baseless rhetoric? The fact is that "normal behavior" is just an average value, and is a very crude representation of the population if you don't also consider the variance. Not everybody's happiness and fulfillment will be maximized by enforcing "normal" behavior, so you have to leave room to let people find their own optimum.
Wholesale banning of a behavior that is sometimes associated with an undesirable behavior is a very inane thing to do. If it's already illegal for a man to oppress a woman, then how would banning clothing that you associate with oppression improve upon that existing law?

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:06 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 4:43 PM Blue Jay has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 49 of 372 (771238)
10-22-2015 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Bliyaal
10-22-2015 2:42 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Bliyaal
Thanks for the reminder and pardon my tardiness.
I am working on something that speak of Muslim honor.
I am not quite done with it but I will put it here for your perusal.
I might just leave it as is to KIS but hope you will opine on it.
Regards
DL
---------
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Pickthall4:34
"Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other,"
.
Every moral legal system I know of in the West and most of the non- Islamic world begins with equality for all.
Should the rest of the world adopt Islam's view of the inequality of women?
Check the value of a Muslim woman, according to some Muslim men, at the 8 min. mark.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MbTATkLntBU
Regards
DL
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.
Edited by Greatest I am, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Bliyaal, posted 10-22-2015 2:42 PM Bliyaal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Bliyaal, posted 10-23-2015 10:48 AM Greatest I am has replied

Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 274 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 50 of 372 (771240)
10-22-2015 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Blue Jay
10-22-2015 4:14 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Blue Jay
Please listen to the link in the post just above as it shows a woman saying that we are sweeping the oppression of women under the rug by ignoring male misogyny against women.
Let me also say that I think it will be a wake up call to Muslim men who have a decent set of morals. If there are enough of those, the religion will improve greatly.
If there are not enough of those, then at least free people will not have to tolerate emblems of misogyny and slavery to be paraded in our free societies.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Blue Jay, posted 10-22-2015 4:14 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Blue Jay, posted 10-22-2015 7:47 PM Greatest I am has replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 51 of 372 (771243)
10-22-2015 6:41 PM


Let's imagine the following scenario. I decide to exploit the women at the place of business I own by requiring women to wear short skirts and prohibiting the wearing of bulky, shape hiding outer garments as tops. Some smart guy decides to fix this problem by outlawing the wearing of short skirts and ordinary dress blouses and requiring all women to wear bulky sweaters. Smart guy then posts his solution as the subject of a thread on EvC.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:07 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


(5)
Message 52 of 372 (771245)
10-22-2015 7:47 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 4:43 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Hi, GIA.
Greatest I Am writes:
Please listen to the link in the post just above as it shows a woman saying that we are sweeping the oppression of women under the rug by ignoring male misogyny against women.
And, once I watch the video, I will be filled with sympathy for this woman, which will give me clarity on the issue, so I can reject the basically rational and objective decision I have already made in favor of an irrational, emotional decision that gives me the warm feeling of standing for a righteous social cause.
Does that about sum it up?
Focusing on something that symbolizes oppression in some people's minds, rather than on oppression itself, is a very oblique way of dealing with the oppression.

-Blue Jay, Ph.D.*
*Yeah, it's real
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 4:43 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Omnivorous, posted 10-22-2015 9:14 PM Blue Jay has not replied
 Message 64 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:10 AM Blue Jay has replied

Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3978
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 7.3


Message 53 of 372 (771252)
10-22-2015 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Blue Jay
10-22-2015 7:47 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Blue Jay writes:
And, once I watch the video, I will be filled with sympathy for this woman, which will give me clarity on the issue, so I can reject the basically rational and objective decision I have already made in favor of an irrational, emotional decision that gives me the warm feeling of standing for a righteous social cause.
Does that about sum it up?
I wish I had a double cheer button.

"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."
Homo sum, humani nihil a me alienum puto.
-Terence

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Blue Jay, posted 10-22-2015 7:47 PM Blue Jay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:11 AM Omnivorous has replied

Bliyaal
Member (Idle past 2368 days)
Posts: 171
From: Quebec City, Qc, Canada
Joined: 02-17-2012


Message 54 of 372 (771272)
10-23-2015 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 4:34 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
How is it related to the topic of banning the niqab? Why don't you focus on your own topic?
Every moral legal system I know of in the West and most of the non- Islamic world begins with equality for all.
Equality also means that everyone has the right to wear what they want.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 4:34 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:13 AM Bliyaal has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 55 of 372 (771274)
10-23-2015 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:32 PM


Geatest I am writes:
I said ---
"Let us hope that no fire ever finds a Canadian mosque or school with female children in it."
By all means. Let us also hope that Froot Loops rain down from the sky like manna.
But the post that you were (supposedly) responding to asked you to back up your claim that there is a "large majority in Canada" who would outlaw the hijab, niqab and burka. Are you ever going to do that? Are you going to show us the Canadian "hard line against the hijab, niqab and burka"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:32 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:15 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 56 of 372 (771275)
10-23-2015 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:36 PM


Greatest I am writes:
Ask them.
Most will say they are forced by either their husbands or peer groups.
And what about the few who are NOT forced? You want to force your will on them.
We've been through this before in another thread: Prohibition doesn't change behaviour; it just drives the behaviour underground. If you force women to go bareheaded in public, their husbands can still oppress them in private.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:36 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Greatest I am, posted 10-26-2015 8:18 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 57 of 372 (771276)
10-23-2015 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Greatest I am
10-22-2015 2:06 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Greatest I am writes:
Free people do not tolerate slavery in their land.
And they don't end slavery by banning chains.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Greatest I am, posted 10-22-2015 2:06 PM Greatest I am has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Porosity, posted 10-23-2015 12:35 PM ringo has replied

Porosity
Member (Idle past 2094 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


Message 58 of 372 (771279)
10-23-2015 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by ringo
10-23-2015 11:56 AM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Finally.. It would seem the majority here would not support a ban, lets get to the important question!..
..Would ringo wear a burka or a beard?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by ringo, posted 10-23-2015 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 10-23-2015 12:57 PM Porosity has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(2)
Message 59 of 372 (771280)
10-23-2015 12:57 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Porosity
10-23-2015 12:35 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
Porosity writes:
..Would ringo wear a burka or a beard?
If I wore a burka, you wouldn't know.
(I'll tell the story again: My avatar used to be Lee Van Cleef from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly. One of our members suggested that we should all try to understand what it's like to be gay by going through Valentine's Day without mentioning the gender of our partner. With my characteristic inability to follow instructions, I decided to become gender-ambiguous instead and I adopted Sharon Stone from The Quick and the Dead as my avatar. Later on, I switched to Sean Connery from The Hunt for Red October because that's more like what I really look like. But people seem to prefer Sharon Stone, so I switched back.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Porosity, posted 10-23-2015 12:35 PM Porosity has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by NoNukes, posted 10-23-2015 2:46 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 372 (771286)
10-23-2015 2:46 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by ringo
10-23-2015 12:57 PM


Re: Pajama Bottoms at the bottom of the style barrel
... I decided to become gender-ambiguous instead
I prefer the ambiguity, so I am going to pretend that I did not read this explanation.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by ringo, posted 10-23-2015 12:57 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by DrJones*, posted 10-23-2015 3:10 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 62 by Omnivorous, posted 10-23-2015 4:11 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

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