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Author | Topic: Tribute Thread For the Recently Raptured Faith | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
so why not leave the middle class alone? Im by no means a wealthy man. I try and do my best for myself and others..giving away everything would only force society to take care of me, and society is shaky and weak financially right now.
Why not hold the wealthy accountable to help the masses? You claimed before that you dont care what the wealthy do with their money...which puzzles me as you quote scripture to encourage a man of modest means, such as myself to give more and do more. some reasons that we disagree:
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
The working people should take care of each other, not use the rich as a crutch.
Why not hold the wealthy accountable to help the masses? You claimed before that you dont care what the wealthy do with their money...which puzzles me as you quote scripture to encourage a man of modest means, such as myself to give more and do more. Phat writes:
By leaning on the rich you're just legitimizing the system that caused the problem in the first place.
The only reason we disagree here is that you insist that people of modest means pay the bill according to their ability. I say the rich should get the bill... Phat writes:
You shouldn't have to. If you spend your working life giving according to your ability, you should be able to receive according to your need in your retirement. But instead, you advocate a system where you're expected to grab all you can. The problem with that is that the unscrupulous leave you little to grab. I cant retire on prayers and handouts ya know...And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
You attributed a quote to me that is really Phat's, about EvCers being unimpressed with scripture. Please correct.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Correction made. Thanks for the heads up.
Of course, the point applies equally well to you. And our geese will blot out the sun.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Saturday, September 1, 2018
The Pre-Tribulation Rapture: Signs and Portents? So why do I believe the Rapture could be as close as this coming Rosh Hashanah? Well, it's mostly a series of personal experiences of things that remind me of such an event, just little personal hints, no major revelations or anything like that, just little things I take as reassurances and proddings from the Lord to be ready. Maybe many people are getting such hints these days. In Matthew 24 Jesus says we won't know the day or the hour, but He also gives us the parable of the fig tree as an admonition that we are to watch in order to recognize when it's near. It may be that when it is very close some of us WILL know the day and the hour, but I don't want to stick my neck out on that, and of course it may not happen so soon anyway. All this is just to say it could be close and in any case we should be watching for it. This may all be totally crackpot but here are some of the hints I've been getting.
So maybe all this just shows me to be a crackpot, but I'm posting as much as I can remember of these little hints because I think they may very well add up to a portent and there are enough of them to give pause to a too-ready dismissiveness. You can decide for yourself. Now THIS will really show me to be a crackpot: Recently I clearly saw in my mind's eye the date "SEPT 10." Make of it what you will. This year Rosh Hashanah starts at sunset on September 9 and runs to sunset of September 11, since the holiday is frequently celebrated on two days although it was initially just the first day of the month of Tishri which begins the Jewish New Year. Until I "saw" that date I had September 11 in mind since it seemed fitting that the Rapture might fall on the anniversary of the WTC attack. On the other hand the day before is perhaps more appropriate since 9/11 is more of a picture of Tribulation than exodus, the Boat Lift notwithstanding. And of course, the actual first day of Tishri is the 10th. There are two very brief passages in scripture that define this rather cryptic holiday: Numbers 29:1 and Leviticus 23:24-25 which I quote:
Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, in the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. Ye shall do no servile work therein, but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. No explanation is given, it's just that the seventh month of the year is also the first month of a year based on the harvest so it's announced with the blowing of the shofar which sounds like a trumpet, a hundred blasts according to one source I found. I pondered the fact that Israel would probably be the center of Rosh Hashanah ceremonies. How does the Lord deal with the time differences around the world for such an event as the Rapture? Israel time is ten hours later than my local daylight time. That is, if it's 8 PM here, it's 6 AM the next day in Israel. I mention 8 PM because that is about sunset here these days and I was thinking I'd take some coffee (and challah bread if I had any) and sit outside on the balcony from about that time on the evening of September 9th, anticipating the possibility of midnight for the blowing of the shofar heralding the Rapture. Of course that means somehow it will happen on local time even though I have no idea how that could be possible. It just doesn't seem right that it wouldn't happen at the start of the actual first day of Tishri everywhere. But if the Rapture occurs on Israel time I'd need to start watching about 10 AM on the 9th which would be their sunset which would be when they blow the shofar there. I don't want to be out on the balcony in the heat so I'll start watching from inside. Of course I may be sitting there a long time and have to conclude this was all my overwrought imagination in the end. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : add link to Boat Lift film and correct "service" to "servile"
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Fath writes: This may all be totally crackpot .... Yup. When you buy a new car you see copies of it everywhere but before you never noticed them. You've become sensitised to this particular idea so you'll see it everyhere you look. The lanterns in Japan are an absolute classic example, they had nothing at all to do with the rapture, your mind simply invented the link. It's the same psychological conditioning that happens when you and other believers talk about the ‘miracles’ you claim to have witnessed or the way god 'talks' to you - they all turn out to be everyday mundanities. Seeing Jesus's face in a piece of toast - same thing. All connected to confirmation bias and motivated thinking. You'll be here on 11th September and 1st October and you'll stay firmly rooted to this planet until you're put into it and form part of it.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Could be. But I'm familiar with that phenomenon and having so many reminders come up of something not so recognizable as a car, not to mention a phone call and relevant radio programs that just happen to be on the air the moment I just happen to sit down and turn it on . The lanterns are just a nice image of things rising into the sky, and not often seen in this part of the world either, like never? so it's hard to avoid the connection (it wasn't Japan, but a country in Southeast Asia -- looked it up: Khao Lak, Thailand). Oh and I really did SEE the date in my mind, a date different from the one I'd been favoring.
But you could be right, I'll leave it at that. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Faith writes: But you could be right, I'll leave it at that. I AM right Faith and what's more I can prove it. You won't be raptured on the 10th September or anytime this month. Now that IS a prophesy. None of this interpretation, ambiguity, context, language, translation garbage. A straight forward and understandable by all prediction. And in fact you will never be raotured. That's another prediction that can be proven right or wrong; but it'll take a bit longer. I hope, for your sake.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
I AM right Faith and what's more I can prove it. You won't be raptured on the 10th September or anytime this month. You can't know what will happen tomorrow. No one can. We can have a high degree of certainty based on scientific law...that the sun will rise tomorrow, for instance. we can even speculate that earth will exist in 200 years. Science gives us a limited degree of certainty but is not infallible.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
ringo writes: Reality shows me that whether or not I advocate a capitalist system, it is likely to remain the status quo until it fails to6tally. Socialism scares me, because unscrupulous people exist regardless of the system favored. The humanist philosophy that people can learn to be good has no real proof, so far. If you spend your working life giving according to your ability, you should be able to receive according to your need in your retirement. But instead, you advocate a system where you're expected to grab all you can. The problem with that is that the unscrupulous leave you little to grab.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: You can't know what will happen tomorrow. No one can. We can have a high degree of certainty based on scientific law...that the sun will rise tomorrow, for instance. we can even speculate that earth will exist in 200 years. Science gives us a limited degree of certainty but is not infallible. I can prove what I predict, infallibly. On the 11th September, I will be proven correct and Faith will be proven wrong. No wriggle-room. You're a gambling man Phat, I'll put my house on it - will you take it? If you want an accumulator, I'll bet on the sun coming up tomorrow. You?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Diomedes Member Posts: 995 From: Central Florida, USA Joined:
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I AM right Faith and what's more I can prove it. You won't be raptured on the 10th September or anytime this month.
You can't know what will happen tomorrow. No one can. We can have a high degree of certainty based on scientific law...that the sun will rise tomorrow, for instance. we can even speculate that earth will exist in 200 years. Science gives us a limited degree of certainty but is not infallible. In this circumstance, what Tangle is asserting is that he can claim with absolute certainty that Faith will not be raptured because the concept of rapture is an unproven phenomenon. Granted, science cannot predict the future, but we can make statements of fact in circumstances for which there is no tangible frame of reference for a particular argument. If for example, someone claimed they will be turning into a frog on a given date, I can respond with absolute certainty that they will not be turning into a frog on that date or any date for that matter because there is no mechanism that can turn a human into a frog. While predictability and probability can be leveraged for concepts within the natural world, such as making predictions on the likelihood of someone being eaten by a shark or being struck by lightning, those prediction mechanisms are not required when dealing with metaphysical assertions.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
OK I think I understand the position.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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Tangle Member Posts: 9509 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Phat writes: Socialism scares me, because unscrupulous people exist regardless of the system favored. The humanist philosophy that people can learn to be good has no real proof, so far. Scared of socialism? Sheesh, that's the entirety of the Christian message - love thy neighbour and do as you would be done by. This is why Christians get a bad name, they love getting on their knees and hailing the wonders of the Lord, but ignore his instructions because it doesn't suit them. The humanist philosophy is that people are human, flaws and all, but that we should build humane societies that have the needs of everyone taken into account and provides a fair crack for all. And again, it's a fundamental Christian principle that people can be redeemed. What on earth are you think about Phat?Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18335 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
The humanist philosophy is that people are human, flaws and all, but that we should build humane societies that have the needs of everyone taken into account and provides a fair crack for all. And again, it's a fundamental Christian principle that people can be redeemed. What on earth are you think about Phat? This was more directed at ringo. He claims that he has never made as much in his life as I have, yet he insists I lower my lifestyle for the benefit of the secular brethren. You bring up that Jesus would likely approve. I can't argue with you guys about this point. It pisses me off though. Where is my liferaft? You have said that you have money, Tangle. Would you want to give it all up? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo
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