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Member (Idle past 5908 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The Meaning Of The Trinity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
There is evil that has nothing to do with free will: parasitic worms, for example.
How can good and free will both exist without evil, or not good existing?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The problem is that if you remove the omnipotent nature of God you, in essence, become God yourself by having the power to remove or imagine or create anything.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
The worms may argue that they received a bad rap.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
So He's not omniscient.
I would say he didnt create everything in that He did not foreknow our decisions. Phat writes:
You're missing the point of the analogy. If He created the evil, He's responsible for the consequences.
He may have created the gun but it is we who decide whether to pull the trigger...or in your case even acknowledge that He made the gun yet is necessary.
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.9
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CRR writes: The problem is that if you remove the omnipotent nature of God you, in essence, become God yourself by having the power to remove or imagine or create anything. Remove god entirely and you don't have a problem.Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You're missing the point of the analogy. If He created the evil, He's responsible for the consequences. And if He never created evil, satan never would have had the opportunity for his own franchise.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You're shooting yourself in the foot. And if He never created evil, satan never would have had the opportunity for his own franchise. There was never any need to create "Satan".
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
There is just no winning with you...is there?
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
You misunderstand me. I am referring to the attributes of God...not humanity. So am I. God creates, and evil exists of necessity and not because it is the will of God or the purpose of God. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
parasitic worms, for example. Worms are not evil. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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LamarkNewAge Member (Idle past 738 days) Posts: 2236 Joined: |
I need to pay more attention, but I get lost badly as to what (on earth! ) is the scriptural basis for all of this stuff about God not bringing suffering and "evil" business.
Too much hot air balloon sermons are part of the problem, but perhaps I just lost myself as to what this is based on scripturally.
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
Then pay attention, and decide for yourself ..... dont blame others just discern for yourself and take the responsibility yourself like a MAN (or WOMAN).
But this thread is on the trinity, and not really about your short comings and failures to understand. Nevertheless if you have a question, make it straight foreward and use maybe more than one sentence in your asking. Thanks David (PS this is the only free board, so do ask HEREIN, for an OPEN answer)Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
Of course they are. Evil results don't require evil intentions.
Worms are not evil.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Of course they are. Evil results don't require evil intentions. Perhaps we've found our point of disagreement. Evil requires intention, although the intention may not be to do evil. A rock randomly falling from a hill is not evil even if it squashes someone. A person pushing said rock down a hill in a situation where he knows or recklessly ignores that someone will be killed is evil. In your view, is a cheetah killing a gazelle evil? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Davidjay  Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days) Posts: 1026 From: B.C Canada Joined: |
I thought this thread was about the topic of the Trinity.
Amazing how some people are allowed to get so far off topic without rebuke or chastisement while others are suppose to tow the party line and stay strictly ON TOPIC. So back to the topic, the trinity... Father, Son and Holy Spirit, for these three are ONE, equal because they are ONE. He that rejects the Son, rejects the Father, and rejects the Holy Ghost who witnessed the Father and Son, etc etc...Evolution is not science. It did not create life nor did it diversify life. It didn;t create the laws that exist nor did it create science. It is a religion and not Science. Intelligent design always defeats evolutions lack of design and lack of intelligence. Luck and Chance is not a scientific doctrine,
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