A true believer

He would technically be sane up until the point that he actually considered severing his own limb. Heck, I find it hard to use a needle to take out a splinter!

So Matthew was wrong?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Hi subbie, Why do you draw that conclusion?It seems like the english language around here is a foreign language.Matthew said: If thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee.Who does the hand offend? You. It doesn't say anything about it offending God.Matthew said it would be profitable (better) to lose a hand here than to go into hell with a complete body.subbie, If I remember correctly you don't believe in hell so I can understand you not getting what Matthew said. But think about what has been said about that place, if it did exist would it be better to go there with a whole body or live in this world minus a body part.If I read you correctly you are saying Matthew said, If your hand sins cut it off because you can't go to heaven with it. Correct me if I am wrong.I told you the only thing that would keep me out of heaven in the above quote which I have bolded and underlined.Here is the Bible passage that so states: Saved= He that believeth is not condemned.
Unsaved= He that believeth not is condemned already.
Reason= Because he has not believed.
It says nothing about a man being good or bad. Or anything else we might come up with. God's plan is simple but man has a complicated plan.

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I don't need your snotty language, fella. I guarantee that my English skills are better than yours. That's the clear implication of the language quoted in the original article. And that implication makes considerably more sense than the KJV version that you're quoting. Simply because your hand offends you, there's no reason to believe such personal offense would keep you from heaven, unless it's also an offense to god.You rely on this language:

quote:

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He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

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My question then becomes, which one do you believe? It appears that they can't both be correct. Either believing in Christ is enough, or one must also cut off offending/sinning body parts. So again, I ask, was Matthew wrong? If not, was the language you quoted wrong? And how does one generally decide which parts of the bible to believe and which not to? If you think they're both correct, please reconcile them. Let me lay your mind to rest. I am fully capable of understanding something someone says, even if I don't agree with it.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

A kid that I knew of - didn't know personally - in Duncan, Oklahoma cut off his right hand with a dullish hatchet back 20 years ago or so. They were able to reattach it, but I never knew if it continued to offend him after it healed up.

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"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

Hi subbie, I would have no doubt that your English skills are better than mine I have been butchering the Kings English for some 67+ years. But the simple words and phrases I can understand perfectly. I believe both.Matthew said it would be profitable for me to cut off my hand if it offended me and go into heaven without it than to go into hell with it. Sounds like a fair deal to me.John said the reason mankind is condemned is because they have not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. That sounds like a good deal also all I have to do is believe in the name of the only begotten Son of God and I will not be condemned. Not really I prefer the Greek but the KJV comes close.Have fun,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I guess you don't place much value in internal consistency.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Hi subbie, To me both statements are true and consistent. Sorry you disagree but hey that is life.You know everyone is entitled to have an opinion and guess what everybody does.Have fun,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

bump, to see if anyone wants to try to actually reconcile these contradictions, as opposed to ignoring them.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

or do the restrictions in the OP apply?

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Well, I was mainly interested in watching literalists tie themselves in knots trying to reconcile the two. But instead, it seems that most of them are laying low, so have at it.

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Well, since it was not meant literally but figuratively, I don't see much of a problem. In the OP you asked: and the answer is "Sane folk don't cut their hands off and hands don't sin."

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Ah, but was it?Certainly I can understand the force of the directive as an illustration of the need to avoid sin. But, given that it is immediately followed by an explanation, it's much harder to interpret it as figurative."And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell."I assume that you'd agree with the second sentence, that it's better to lose a body part than to go to hell. Or perhaps you don't.... True, but the quote doesn't say, "If your hand sins." It says, "If your hand causes you to sin."In any event, for someone who only takes the Matthew injunction figuratively, this still leaves open the question posed upthread to ICANT, who seems to think that simply believing in christ is enough to get one into heaven. If that's the case, then how can that be reconciled with Matthew, which says, figuratively, that sinning will prevent one from getting into heaven?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

Nah, I don't agree with that. As to figurative vs literal, the very line you quote seems to point in that direction. Of course your hand can't cause you to sin.As to Hell, Ah hell, fuggitabuttit. Yeah, the Gett Outta Hell Free card theology. It's pretty common among the Born Again marketers and honestly, it's an easy sell.But it also makes God out to be a fool as well as evil. Well it can't, and it can't be reconciled with what Jesus supposedly said either. But the Bible isn't consistent. It is an anthology of anthologies and different parts tell different stories.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Okay, bible's full of contradictions, and that doesn't bother you. I got no problem with that.No Get Out of Hell Free Card. I'll buy that.The quote from Matthew doesn't mean god's looking for self-mutilation in his name. Gotcha. But then, what does the quote from Matthew mean to you?

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Those who would sacrifice an essential liberty for a temporary security will lose both, and deserve neither. -- Benjamin FranklinWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat