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Author | Topic: Man in gods image... How ? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Not when all deaths are attributed to God, and when there are also redeeming factors, such as being saved from slavery in Egypt. The samson story vouches for the negation of unjust death, than how you portrayed it.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
You have gone astray.
'IN HIS IMAGE' - refers to 'speech'. This is a creationist implement, whereby genesis says there were no tools and elements when the universe was created, and it emerged via speech, namely with the utterence of a word/will/command/thought. That 'THE LORD *SAID* LET THERE BE LIGHT' refers to speech ['SAID']. All of mankind's works are derived via speech - a Gdlike trait.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Even when its context is clearly embedded in the describing of an actual war situation!? Lol - grammar was introduced in the OT, and there is no other example of an expressionism than that verse - and no other reading of it. It was stated by a cherished writer named Isiah, who's writings are emulated and utilised by the greatest of poets and writers.
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iceage  Suspended Member (Idle past 5943 days) Posts: 1024 From: Pacific Northwest Joined: |
iaj writes: The variance with the greek/hellenism is pretty well illustrated in the OT laws, and in fact the basis for many wars with nations rejecting the premise of an invisibale, indescribable and unfathomable God. This sentence is poorly constructed and I cannot understand what you are trying to say.
iaj writes: The aspect of 'POWER' is one of the given attributes of the creator... A supernova is POWER meddling in the tribal affairs of men is trifling.
iaj writes: ...along with such paradigms as TRUTH, MERCY, FORGIVENESS, etc. The OT defies this description...
quote: No mercy and kill them all! The fact that this sounds like the philosophy of Al-Qaeda is no coincidence.
quote: A trash talking god? Just like WWF. Now why would the creator of the universe need holy hitmen to carry out his destruction? Is God incapable of doing his destruction? And one of the more ludicrous rules by the creator of Galaxies...
quote: Let the boys play eh? and show her no pity. These are not the thoughts of God - but men.
iaj writes: In a war scenario, the usage of God's help is reasnable and not as per the greek. Greek gods get into the affairs of wars all the time.
iaj writes: In the dispensing of justice, for example, we can say God is the judge, without alligning this to actual impersonification this factor is correctly an exressionism, denoted by its context of reference being within the realm of justice. This sentence just does not make any sense.
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Phat Member Posts: 18348 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
Zucadragon writes: This is a great philosophical topic, and my observations are entirely based on my own speculations and interpretations of Biblical wording. Now we humans, we have searched, found, processed and created using techniques well beyond what our own bodies can do. Techniques half the world don't even understand.. But they come from thoughts and experiments.. We can truly create something out of nearly nothing (I say nearly, we can do a lot with little if needed, but we cant create out of nothing).. Personally, I believe that God created us in His own imagination. The image of man is Jesus Christ. Jesus was in the beginning (with God as Gods character) Whether Jesus was only human while on Earth or whether Jesus had a dual nature, fully human and fully Son (in total communion with His Father) is irrelevant. What is relevant is that Jesus was in the beginning. He was not a created thing. He was not some afterthought of a monotheistic God. He was in the beginning with God and through Him all things were created. (Yes these are unsupported beliefs, but allow me to express them, critics.) As soon as humanity became symbolically (or literally aware) that we had a choice whether to remain in communion with God or to become independent and freethinking, we chose freethinking and thus were granted our own imaginations. Vain though we were, we grew and evolved slowly after that point in time. The symbolism of the Garden of Eden story shows that the serpent (who had also preceded us as an independent entity from the Heavenly Hosts) told humans that they would be as gods if they rose up and claimed their freedom of choice. Two points: 1) God foreknew that Lucifer would rebel and become Satan. It was no news to Him that this happened. God never created evil directly. God merely created the possibility of evil which Lucifer then chose.2) Fallen Angels could never repent and return to communion with God. Humans could have this choice. Thus, there are two images. Two imaginations. Two realities. We have:1) Gods imagination 2) Human imagination. We have a choice in life of accepting our own responsibility and either being accountable to God (through belief and profession, if not religion) or accountable to no one. (except ourselves) Humanity has created many things. One could argue that there is nothing new under the Son (since He initially created reality itself and the very definition of everything seen and unseen.) Humans are thus never actual creators. We are re creators. We discover that which has already been created (or at least conceptualized) within the mind of GOD. Disclaimer: This post is a compilation of the personal beliefs of its author. No implication of truth is contained therein, except for the Truth of Christ. Everyone is free to challenge the assumptions contained therein, with the acknowledgment that none of us really know anything. The assumption that we do is to assume that we are somehow creative...apart from God or perhaps because of Him. "All that we call human history--money, poverty, ambition, war, prostitution, classes, empires, slavery--[is] the long terrible story of man trying to find something other than God which will make him happy."--C.S.Lewis * * * * * * * * * * “The world has achieved brilliance without wisdom, power without conscience. Ours is a world of nuclear giants and ethical infants.”--General Omar Bradley * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Homer Simpson: Sometimes, Marge, you just have to go with your gut! Marge: You *always* go with your gut! How about for once you listen to your brain?
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: You see commonality of the OT with hellenism and its mythological dieties; I see the differences. The OT is based on the strickest form of Monotheism possible, while hellenism is based on blatant polytheism. If you read the criteria for monotheism, a premise introduced in the OT, no form of images are allowed for worship; here, the only exceptions are abstract factors, such as prayer, expressionism and metaphors - which are not graven images. I find your views selective and ommisive, resulting in the antithesis of your conclusion should be.
quote: Also in the affairs of virus and insects. This is the meaning of omnipotent.
quote: I don't see humanity surviving solely by its own deeds. We are propped up, despite being less than adequate, and in the midst of anything minute going wrong resulting in our demise. there is both forces in this realm, positive and negative, and it is very difficult to know which is which - we are not privy to the big picture.
quote: Normal, garden variety stuff 3000 years ago; this was a supersticious period, and in certain kinds of wars, no prisoners were taken. It is still better than the attrocities seen the last 300 years. The OT depicts truth - the reason it is believed. These forms of wars occured even a few 100 years ago - people were massacred upto 700 million when they refused enforced conversions. It is a humanity factor.
quote: This too is human improvisation. There are equivalent chants today on the net. It has nothing to do with your conclusion, and most probably it means something other than your views.
quote: Do you know what is meant by 'reaches out and seizes him by his private parts'? These were different times, and this was a very grevious action then. The penalty today for any wrong doing is a variable, according to each generation's times - but the penalty must be appropriate to the crime. This week, a death sentence is demanded for a teacher who inadvertantly named a doll as Mohammed - so these are sensitivities of the ages, and only seen with surprise today. One can say, these are required evolutionary phases for humanity.
quote: I'll translate. It refers to another example of an expressionism. By saying God is the 'judge', in the context of judgement - it cannot mean an actual judge with a silver toppee in a courtroom. The same applies to the notion of a man of war expressionism.: they are clearly contextual. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes: Disclaimer: This post is a compilation of the personal beliefs of its author. I guess make-it-up-as-you-go-along is the standard for the so-called "Bible Study" forum. Who needs actual reference to the Bible when one's beliefs are so firm and consistent? “Faith moves mountains, but only knowledge moves them to the right place” -- Joseph Goebbels
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
It can be validated by a correct comprehension of the text. Grammar was introduced here: this says the most coherent path be taken. In this instant it is even made simpler, because there does not appear any other explanations to consider when taking other factors in the same source into consideration. Eg: 'NO MAN SHALL SEE ME AND LIVE'; 'GOD IS NOT LIKE MAN'; 'NO COMPARISON OF GOD WITH ANYTHING IN THE UNIVERSE'; ETC.
If you miss the signs, you end up driving in the wrong lane. Its got nothing to do with belief - its the texts!
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4217 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
Ezekiel 9:5-7
"Then I heard the LORD say to the other men, "Follow him through the city and kill everyone whose forehead is not marked. Show no mercy; have no pity! Kill them all - old and young, girls and women and little children. But do not touch anyone with the mark. Begin your task right here at the Temple." So they began by killing the seventy leaders. "Defile the Temple!" the LORD commanded. "Fill its courtyards with the bodies of those you kill! Go!" So they went throughout the city and did as they were told." No mercy and kill them all! The fact that this sounds like the philosophy of Al-Qaeda is no coincidence. I wouldn't doubt that's where Al-Qaeda came up with this ridiculous philosophy. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: Grammar was introduced here: this says the most coherent path be taken. There's nothing coherent in that line. Do you type your posts with an axe? Please try to write one sentence in plain English. Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
Because Israel was given a direct, open and firsthand Revelation at Sinai - very little excuses are available for blatant, open and sustained sins ['And I will punish you sevenhold'; 'And I will set the hearts and the minds of the nations against you'; etc]. Much is at stake when commandments are desecrated in this regard, in Jerusalem, while the Temple stood, and one must consider the crimes commited in this instant, and what it means when it is not responded to in kind. We know the OT is constant - Sodom was destroyed entirely, making this not an unusual situation; an entire region was destroyed by a flood [Noah]; Moses was forbidden from entering the Promised Land; etc.
There is a difference is commiting a crime before a friend, kin, king - and when the first temple stood - which manifested open revelation [as opposed the 2nd temple]. The severity decreases when further from such a spiritual arena. Justice here is a terrifying paradign ['But my justice shall not suffer'], and thankfully, justice is listed as the last of the 13 Attributes, coming after the abuse of mercy, forgiveness, kindness, truth, etc. If the kitchen is too hot - leave the room: 'KNOW BEFORE WHOM YOU YOU ARE STANDING'. > 4 And the LORD said unto him: 'Go through the midst of the city, through> the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that> sigh and that cry for all the abominations that are done in the midst> thereof.' That is, put a sign on the righteous, who were sorrowful for the sinsof the city! Similarly, God put a sign on Cain TO PROTECT him (unlikethe common misunderstanding there). Those marked with God's sign aremarked for protection. > 5 And to the others He said in my hearing: 'Go ye through the> city after him, and smite; let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity; That the unrighteous should be slaughtered. 6> slay utterly the old man, the young man and the maiden, and little> children and women; but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; Don't slay the marked as righteous, but all the unrighteous of allages. and> begin at My sanctuary.' Where idol worship had defiled the holy Temple of God. > Then they began at the elders that were before the> house. These were the corrupt leaders. 7 And He said unto them: 'Defile the house, and fill the courts> with the slain; go ye forth.' And they went forth, and smote in the city. The house of Idols, which should have been the house of God, was to beturned into a house full of dead bodies, unworthy of even idol worship. > 8 And it came to pass, while they were smiting, and I was left, that I> fell upon my face, and cried, and said: 'Ah Lord GOD! wilt Thou destroy> all the residue of Israel in Thy pouring out of Thy fury upon Jerusalem?' The prophet fears that few if any will be left under such conditions. > 9 Then said He unto me: 'The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is> exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of> wresting of judgment; for they say: The LORD hath forsaken the land, and> the LORD seeth not. 10 And as for Me also, Mine eye shall not spare,> neither will I have pity, but I will bring their way upon their head.' 11 God commands that it be done all the same! > And, behold, the man clothed in linen, who had the inkhorn on his side,> reported, saying: 'I have done according to all that Thou hast commanded> me.' {P} It was done. Edited by IamJoseph, : No reason given.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: Those are the rules of Grammar. If you check, this faculty reaches its epitomy here, namely in the OT texts. The OT writings are contextual, which must be precedent of chronology in correct grammar. IOW, first finish the point being made, then qualify with extra factors. Second, that the interpretation by the reader must take the coherent path, not an incoherent path: and the coherent path is affirmed by other usages elsewhere - the writings are all intergrated, meaning the contradiction of another sector is NOT the correct path.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: quote: Those are the rules of Grammar. If you check, this faculty reaches its epitomy here, namely in the OT texts. The OT writings are contextual, which must be precedent of chronology in correct grammar. Clearly, you're well beyond the epitome. The topic is "Man in God's image". Are you trying to demonstrate that God is a blithering idiot? Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.
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IamJoseph Member (Idle past 3696 days) Posts: 2822 Joined: |
quote: No. Just to re-state, where you have more than one possible meaning, the most coherent one should be taken. Specially so, when it is affirmed by the text elsewhere which is the correct meaning: there are numerous laws in the OT which clearly dispell any notion of divine personification. Grammar is logic based, and the OT is using valid forms of expressionism, of the most contextual kind.
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ringo Member (Idle past 440 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
IamJoseph writes: ... there are numerous laws in the OT which clearly dispell any notion of divine personification. Since this is the Bible Study forum, please cite (and preferably quote) those passages. Disclaimer: The above statement is without a doubt, the most LUDICROUS, IDIOTIC AND PERFECT EXAMPLE OF WILLFUL STUPIDITY, THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN OR HEARD.
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