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Author Topic:   Evolution Q & A
drummachine
Inactive Member


Message 1 of 14 (32697)
02-19-2003 8:03 PM


If you could please answer these questions. Thank you.
Where did the space for the universe come from?
Where did matter come from?
Where did the laws of the universe come from (gravity, inertia, etc.)?
How did matter get so perfectly organized?
Where did the energy come from to do all the organizing?
When, where, why, and how did life come from dead matter?
When, where, why, and how did life learn to reproduce itself?
With what did the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce?
Why would any plant or animal want to reproduce more of its kindsince this would only make more mouths to feed and decrease the chances of survival? (Does the individual have a drive to survive, or the species? How do you explain this?)
How can mutations (recombining of the genetic code) create any new, improved varieties? (Recombining English letters will never produce Chinese books.)
Is it possible that similarities in design between different animals prove a common Creator instead of a common ancestor?
Natural selection only works with the genetic information available and tends only to keep a species stable. How would you explain the increasing complexity in the genetic code that must have occurred if evolution were true?
When, where, why, and how did:
Single-celled plants become multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)
Single-celled animals evolve?
Fish change to amphibians?
Amphibians change to reptiles?
Reptiles change to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes,reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different!)
How did the intermediate forms live?
When, where, why, how, and from what did:
Whales evolve?
Sea horses evolve?
bats evolve?
Eyes evolve?
Ears evolve?
Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolve?
Which evolved first how, and how long, did it work without the others)?
The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)?
The drive to reproduce or the ability to reproduce?
The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs?
DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts?
The termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose?
The plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants?
The bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones?
The nervous system, repair system, or hormone system?
The immune system or the need for it?
There are many thousands of examples of symbiosis that defy an evolutionary explanation. Why must we teach students that evolution is the only explanation for these relationships?
How would evolution explain mimicry? Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?
When, where, why, and how did man evolve feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc. would never evolve in the theory of evolution.
*How did photosynthesis evolve?
*How did thought evolve?
*How did flowering plants evolve, and from that?
*What kind of evolutionist are you? Why are you not one of the other eight or ten kinds?
What would you have said fifty years ago if I told you I had a living coelacanth in my aquarium?
*Is there one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proved true?
*What is so scientific about the idea of hydrogen as becoming human?
*Do you honestly believe that everything came from nothing?
After you have answered the preceding questions, please look carefully at your answers and thoughtfully consider the following questions.
Are you sure your answers are reasonable, right, and scientifically provable, or do you just believe that it may have happened the way you have answered? (Do these answers reflect your religion or your science?)
Do your answers show more or less faith than the person who says, "God must have designed it"?
Is it possible that an unseen Creator designed this universe? If God is excluded at the beginning of the discussion by your definition of science, how could it be shown that He did create the universe if He did?
Is it wise and fair to present the theory of evolution to students as fact?
What is the end result of a belief in evolution (lifestyle, society, attitude about others, eternal destiny, etc.)?
Do people accept evolution because of the following factors?
It is all they have been taught.
They like the freedom from God (no moral absolutes, etc.).
They are bound to support the theory for fear of losing their job or status or grade point average.
They are too proud to admit they are wrong.
Evolution is the only philosophy that can be used to justify their political agenda.
Should we continue to use outdated, disproved, questionable, or inconclusive evidences to support the theory of evolution because we don’t have a suitable substitute (Piltdown man, recapitulation, archaeopteryx, Lucy, Java man, Neanderthal man, horse evolution, vestigial organs, etc.)?
Should parents be allowed to require that evolution not be taught as fact in their school system unless equal time is given to other theories of origins (like divine creation)?
What are you risking if you are wrong? As one of my debate opponents said, "Either there is a God or there is not. Both possibilities are frightening."
Why are many evolutionists afraid of the idea of creationism being presented in public schools? If we are not supposed to teach religion in schools, then why not get evolution out of the textbooks? It is just a religious worldview.
Aren’t you tired of faith in a system that cannot be true? Wouldn’t it be great to know the God who made you, and to accept His love and forgiveness?
Would you be interested, if I showed you from the Bible, how to have your sins forgiven and how to know for sure that you are going to Heaven?

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coragyps, posted 02-19-2003 9:15 PM drummachine has not replied
 Message 3 by TrueCreation, posted 02-19-2003 9:28 PM drummachine has not replied
 Message 5 by Primordial Egg, posted 02-20-2003 4:21 AM drummachine has not replied
 Message 7 by David unfamous, posted 02-20-2003 5:43 AM drummachine has not replied
 Message 12 by octipice, posted 02-22-2003 11:43 PM drummachine has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 753 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 2 of 14 (32704)
02-19-2003 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by drummachine
02-19-2003 8:03 PM


quote:
Would you be interested, if I showed you from the Bible, how to have your sins forgiven and how to know for sure that you are going to Heaven?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by drummachine, posted 02-19-2003 8:03 PM drummachine has not replied

TrueCreation
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 14 (32707)
02-19-2003 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by drummachine
02-19-2003 8:03 PM


A suggestion for drummachine: Posts like these are usually ignored. You should try and post a thread which has a more direct topical direction. Maybe then you would be taken more seriously?
-------------------
The OYSI.Archive
-------------------
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-19-2003]
[This message has been edited by TrueCreation, 02-19-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by drummachine, posted 02-19-2003 8:03 PM drummachine has not replied

Karl
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 14 (32715)
02-20-2003 3:38 AM


Drummachine - the questions you list would take libraries of information to answer. Do you even know what quantum fluctuations are? You'll need to know to understand some of the answers. But, of course, if you were really interested in the answers, you'd go and find out yourself.
Would you like me to post you a list of questions about, say, exactly what route Abraham took to get to Canaan? On what day of the week did Jacob dream of his ladder? Exactly which creationist site did you copy and paste your OP from?
But it's the non-sequitur at the end that's the laugh. You will find that no-one trusts a biological model for salvation. Those of us who are Christians trust Christ for that, and it has absolutely bugger all to do with evolution.

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by Fedmahn Kassad, posted 02-20-2003 8:07 AM Karl has not replied

Primordial Egg
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 14 (32719)
02-20-2003 4:21 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by drummachine
02-19-2003 8:03 PM


quote:
Is it wise and fair to present the theory of evolution to students as fact?
yes.
PE

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by drummachine, posted 02-19-2003 8:03 PM drummachine has not replied

Karl
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 14 (32721)
02-20-2003 5:30 AM


But I've got a notion.
Who's for calling Drummachine's bluff?
Why doesn't each subsequent non-creationist poster take the next point from his list? Let's not be afraid of "we don't know" - if drummachine uses that for a "goddidit" then he's just hanged himself on the God of the Gaps rope, and we can all open the trapdoor for him.
Drummachine, for your part, you should research the answers you are given. Ask yourself honestly whether the mounds of evidence you will be pointed is really debunked by your creationist sources.

David unfamous
Inactive Member


Message 7 of 14 (32722)
02-20-2003 5:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by drummachine
02-19-2003 8:03 PM


You have just shown us that the reason you prefer to believe in fairytales like God and heaven is because there are too many questions beyond your own comprehension to be answered. Or that you simply don't want to know.
You logic is that if a question cannot be answered today, then it must be substituted with a religious one - God did it. It saves you thinking for yourself, and prevents your anxieties of burning in the hell that you have been brainwashed into thinking exists.
Maybe you can answer me a question: What is the origin of God?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by drummachine, posted 02-19-2003 8:03 PM drummachine has not replied

Fedmahn Kassad
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 14 (32723)
02-20-2003 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Karl
02-20-2003 3:38 AM


If I am not mistaken, that is Hovind's list.
FK

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Karl, posted 02-20-2003 3:38 AM Karl has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by Joe T, posted 02-20-2003 1:06 PM Fedmahn Kassad has not replied

Joe T
Member (Idle past 2188 days)
Posts: 41
From: Virginia
Joined: 01-10-2002


Message 9 of 14 (32736)
02-20-2003 1:06 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Fedmahn Kassad
02-20-2003 8:07 AM


quote:
If I am not mistaken, that is Hovind's list.
Indeed it was lifted entirely from Dr Dino.
It might be interesting to do a study to determine if there is a correlation between followers of the good "Doctor" and folks who do not seem to understand what plagiarism is and why it is not a good thing. Anecdotally it would seem so.
http://www.drdino.com/cse.asp?pg=articles&specific=3

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Fedmahn Kassad, posted 02-20-2003 8:07 AM Fedmahn Kassad has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2003 1:37 PM Joe T has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17825
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 10 of 14 (32738)
02-20-2003 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Joe T
02-20-2003 1:06 PM


The incidence of plagiarism does seem to be quite high amongst Fundamentalist Christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Joe T, posted 02-20-2003 1:06 PM Joe T has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Karl, posted 02-21-2003 3:17 AM PaulK has not replied

Karl
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 14 (32800)
02-21-2003 3:17 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by PaulK
02-20-2003 1:37 PM


So. Drummachine has posted this list twice now, with no attribution mentioned.
Drummachine - do you have any comment to make about your dishonest, unethical plagiarism?
You are aware that if you did this at University you would quite possibly be required to withdraw?
[This message has been edited by Karl, 02-21-2003]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 02-20-2003 1:37 PM PaulK has not replied

octipice
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 14 (32904)
02-22-2003 11:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by drummachine
02-19-2003 8:03 PM


Plagarism aside, let's get to the answers.
As far as questions 1 through 6 are concerned, it is impossible to know these answers. Regardless of which theory you support(creation or evolution) I seriously doubt that anyone can provide any evidence at all to answer these questions. Furthermore, these questions are not even scientific; they are philisophical. Most importantly, what benefit could we possibly gain from knowing the answers. As for the rest of the questions regarding the biological aspects of evolution, I feel that they come from a general lack of understanding concerning the subject. In my view, biological evolution is quite simple. Organisms must gain nourishment to survive. Organisms must compete against each other for this limited amount of nourishment. Organisms pass on the genes through one of several modes of reproduction. The greater an organism's ability to compete for resources is, the greater chance of it surviving and reproducing. Thus, the more superior organism's genes are passed on more often. The genes of an organism can be altered by other factors. These alterations will effect its ability to compete for nourishment and thus its ability to survive and reproduce. The most important thing that many creationists fail to understand is that this process is occuring all of the time. Thus, there are no definite "species" because the definition of each "species" is constantly changing. The most important thing for creationists to understand is that evolution is the theory of change. Thus to deny the theory of evolution is to deny the idea that things change due to cause and effect relationships, and to deny that is just stupidity. The way that most creationists try to "disprove" the theory of evolution is by asking questions such as "how did "*****" evolve?". Evolutionists will give their best answer based on the information that has been scientifically gathered on whatever subject was asked about. If there is any flaw in the response it is due to the fact that we do not have all of the data to work with and we cannot always trace path of a species because the evidence isn't always there yet.
As far as the educational aspects of evolution, it should be taught as what is. As I stated earlier, evolution is a theory of change. It is correct in that aspect. However, some conclusions drawn by tracing backwards using that theory are flawed because they did not have all of the data that was needed.
It is important to understand what the difference between evolution and creationism is. Simply put evolution is the theory that things change and it does not imply any definite beginning or end to the universe. Creationism is a theory that implies a definite beginning and end to the universe, but does little to address the idea of change.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by drummachine, posted 02-19-2003 8:03 PM drummachine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Gzus, posted 02-23-2003 4:45 PM octipice has not replied

Gzus
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 14 (32954)
02-23-2003 4:45 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by octipice
02-22-2003 11:43 PM


Re: Plagarism aside, let's get to the answers.
they've got the same problem with this Hovind charade at the talkorigins site, they've got a nice article on his so-called '$250k challenge'. Hovind has been charged by the state for tax evasion and fraud.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by octipice, posted 02-22-2003 11:43 PM octipice has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 14 of 14 (32975)
02-23-2003 8:23 PM


Closing This Thread
Thank you, everyone, for a series of very appropriate responses. No single thread, or even ten threads, could handle such a wide variety of questions.
Just to clarify for those who have questions about why this thread is being closed, threads should try to focus on a single topic or at least a set of closely related topics. And, of course, topics should be of actual interest to the person posting them and not be a collection of someone else's questions.
------------------
--EvC Forum Administrator

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