Debunking Annihilationism

Keep in mind that God never directly created an evil satan. The competitors chose to become such. Perhaps God uses them to test and strengthen us---should we be so inclined.Simply getting rid of all challenges makes for a spoiled and weak offspring.Also keep in mind that God never throws us in with them.. We choose to go. Or not.

God created everything. If Satan was created to challenge us and challenges are a good thing, how is Satan evil?

Yes yes, we know. And if God is perfect, why allow for the possibility of a rebellious,prideful spirit that opposes Him? Good question. Why do you think? Another good philosophical question. If the Nazi German Army was meant as a challenge to the U.S. and British forces in WW2, who can determine whether or not they were evil or whether they were simply an alternative ideology...in other words, Who says what is good and what is evil...right, zombie?I am of the belief that God is good. Not complete, as jar suggests. To suggest that God is complete is to lump the good with the bad, blame it all on God, and assume personal responsibility for choosing wisely. (Knowledge of good and evil theory...which, by the way, makes more sense than the Fall/Original Sin/Redemption paradigm)Perhaps the answer is to ascribe the onus on us instead of on God. This can become problematic, however, if we get rebels such as you who want to be left alone to make their decisions and see no need of a communion/reconciliation. Then again, you may be right. Who knows?

The obvious answer is that God isn't perfect - if He exists at all. Then you're a polytheist. God is your chief god and Satan is another god.

That might also be an answer that satan would have given at his trial...if his defense attorney advised him to speak at all. God is the Creator of all seen and unseen. Satan is a fallen angel...a created thing. (though I believe he was created to have free will and chose to become satan..an option provided by the Creator. Reasons yet not fully known.And I am a thinking human. Privy to dogma as well as logic, reason, and reality.The obvious answer is anything but obvious.

I would have advised him to ask for a change of venue. Some people reject the obvious answer because it isn't the answer they want.

Under what jurisdiction would it be held? Cant argue with you there.

That's the problem. There was nobody else. It was more of a case of bullying than a trial.

Let me go out on a limb, here. It almost sounds like you believe that satan had the right to rebel and be his own character and spirit.This whole idea of independence from God, however is a big lie.We won't be happier nor healthier...trust me.And its not like being forever children and living at home.

Because God does not really care about what individual humans have to go through?

"zombie" ringo?

God allows bad things to happen. But there is a big difference between allowing them and causing them. As to whether or not God cares---I believe that He does. One could argue that this is my bias and my need.I would argue,however, that as one of our lessons in this life we will all one day learn that we need God. Not for our own wills ultimately...but in accordance with His will. It is a lesson that He won't force upon us. Often, however, it may be a hard lesson for some of us.

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You have the right to free
Speech as long as you're not
Dumb enough to actually try it.

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-- The Clash, Know Your Rights

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What good is "free will" if using it is called "rebellion"? No offense but why would I trust you on that? Is too, neener neener.(Pretty short on argument there.)

I'm so glad this topic has been brought up! I've been wanting to create a thread positing a cogent biblical argument for the truth about hell for a long time! Unfortunately time for creating in depth arguments is limited, but I'll throw a few things down here.From your OP, it is pretty apparent that your problem is actually with a strawman; that hell is "merely symbolic of the grave." I am probably as close to an annihilationist as you're going to find on here, and I don't believe hell is symbolic of the grave. I believe hell does not exist. By choosing to believe that hell is a fiery place of eternal torment you would actually be siding with the unbiblical, and decidedly hellenistic (greek) concept of hades. Except that this story is a parable designed by Jesus to make a specific point . Let's take a look at it for some context:

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There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, 21 who longed to satisfy his hunger with what fell from the rich man’s table; even the dogs would come and lick his sores. 22 The poor man died and was carried away by the angels to be with Abraham.[g] The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In Hades, where he was being tormented, he looked up and saw Abraham far away with Lazarus by his side.[h] 24 He called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in agony in these flames.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that during your lifetime you received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in agony. 26 Besides all this, between you and us a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who might want to pass from here to you cannot do so, and no one can cross from there to us.And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house 28 for I have five brothersso that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’ - Luke 16:19-31

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This is the section within which we are dealing with. If you are actually reading the chapter, you'll realize that Jesus is leading up to a specific theme. He begins in verses 1-9, telling a parable about being faithful with what God has given. He basically is trying to communicate to the Pharisees (who are listening, we discover this in verse 14), that they have not been faithful with what God originally gave them, blessings, and encouraging listeners to choose between serving God and money (verse 13).The entire point of this parable is the ending verses: 29-31

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But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’

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This pericope is the entire point of the parable. Its frustrating that we totally miss the point of what Jesus is trying to say here so often, just like the Jews listening did. We read so much into the text that it's borderline ludicrous, and the "traditional" line of thought on the matter leaves us blindly accepting lazy exegesis. What Jesus is trying to say is simple: Jesus was "prophesying" that the Jewish leaders were so stuck in their self righteousness that nothing he did would ever convince them of who He truly was. And if they didn't even listen to the prophets, not even the resurrection itself would do anything. Jesus did this often, making prophecies about himself which were later confirmed, as was this one. The "Lazarus in Abraham's bosom/side" story is merely the contextualization Jesus is using to make a point.In case you're not convinced, the imagery used in the parable is pretty ludacris and altogether would be obvious to the listeners of the time of its allegorical nature. "send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue" - there is absolutely no biblical support for the interaction between those in "hell" and those in "heaven." Regardless, Jews did not believe in a "hades-like" afterlife; the Jewish concept of the afterlife was called "sheol," a shadowy state of sleep within the earth and did not include the very greek "heaven and hell" concept. But Jesus says "hades" because of the very greek cultural influences present during the time, its something listeners would understand.In conclusion, the parable presented is only a tiny example of Jesus using the cultural norm (hades) in order to communicate to listeners a self-fulfilling prophecy about His purpose. All throughout the gospels Jesus does this, especially with parables, using the context he is within to make a point.The idea of an immortal soul that lives on beyond death is totally greek in nature and does not really exist in scripture. On the contrary, the bible, and Jesus, speak much more about the destructible nature of the soul rather than immortality. Just one example:

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And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell. - Matt 10:21

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The idea of a soul that lives on and cannot be destroyed, even by God, and somehow needs to be tortured and burned for all of eternity because of mistakes made during an incredibly small amount of "time" (within the grand scheme of eternity) makes God out to be a horrible genocidal monster in my opinion, and is one of the biggest lies within christianity, creating the biggest reason people couldn't care less about Christianity.If Christians actually preached the message of reconciliation (2 Corinthians 5:11-21) that God does not count the world's sins against them, things would be different. So I encourage you guys, do the digging yourself, actually investigate scripture. You'll be surprised to find that the kind of hell you're talking about isnt actually a thing. "God is love" is a true thing for a reason.Hopefully this all makes sense! Wish I could do a more in-depth post about it!- RaphEdited by Raphael, : No reason given.

Jesus would not tell a parable that wasn't meant to speak truth to everyone who would ever read the Bible, and there is nothing in the Bible that teaches a mere cultural conceit to people of the time. That's absurd and blasphemous and deceitful. Jesus is always talking to Jews for one thing ("Abraham's bosom" wouldn't mean anything to the Greeks.). Yours is the faulty exegesis and I guess you don't mind deceiving people by your mere personal opinion.