Genesis Creation Stories: Sequence Contradictions?

You only have yourself to blame......

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"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes agoI think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought"I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one Being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and his kingdom will have no end. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life, who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified. He has spoken through the Prophets...I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins. I look for the resurrection of the dead, and the life of the world to come. Amen." The Nicene CreedWinner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

Isn't that interesting? Earth is a brand new creation, a paradise where everything is "very good." Except, there's this desert where no crops are in the field because it hasn't rained and there's no one to do the plowing.It's a brand new world but there's already this place, this landmark in the desert, called Eden. God plants a garden not far from this landmark, like there's no better place for a garden, a place without rain. Then He puts the newly created man in the garden to do the weeding. Compare this with the role of mankind according to the first scenario (Genesis 1:26-28).To find the 'Garden of Eden,' go to Eden and turn left. It's the first plantation on the right.

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doctrbill wrote:- This scenario depicts earth as a desert, so we shouldn't be surprised that there's no mention of sea life.

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In the first scenario there is water, everywhere, and dry land is brought forth.In the second scenario there is dry land, everywhere, and a river is brought forth.From the get-go, these these two stories are uniquely different. They vary in at least a dozen ways.You have chosen to debate one of them, and it seems to me you are having some difficulty persuading your opponents. Perhaps you can zero in on another of those dozen differences. Perhaps you will have better luck.

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Your concern about the difference between 'cattle' and 'beasts of the field' puzzles me. When I write I don't limit my expression.

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No one speaks ancient Hebrew, but so what?dbThis message has been edited by doctrbill, 11-06-2004 10:24 PM

A "helper fit for him" is another human.BTW, help meet is singular, not plural like in your quote above.

Where does it say this in Genesis 2?

Sorry Doctrbill, I'm going to put my kids to bed now but I'll look for your response in the morning!

Well, the text certainly gives no indication that God knows that to be the case until Adam finds out.Again, you need to go back to the text, and read what it says there, not what you'd like it to say. What's the first thing God does after saying "time to make Adam a help meet?"Create animals. It doesn't take a genius, here, to understand the message of this part of Genesis - God created the animals in an effort to find a helpmeet for Adam, because animals were created for Adam's use. That's why he gets to name them.

Beginning at Genesis 2:5 the earth is described as if it were a desert. That garden did not depend on regular rainfall.Adam and Eve were subsequently thrown out of the Garden and into a harsh world of thorns and thistles. 3:18There is no suggestion of the "very good" earth depicted in the first story; a place imagined to be a global paradise; a tropical rainforest, with food on every tree and never, ever, any need to till the soil. In that story, humans rule the world, and God takes the weekend off. Happy ending.In the second story, humans are slaves on the LORD's plantation; in the desert; near Eden. They screw up, lose their jobs, get kicked out and live miserable little lives ever after.Yeah. It's obviously the same story!db

I have lost interest in debating this topic here, as pretty much the entire fourth and fifth page have stopped, or at least greatly interrupted the issue. Is there anyway that the messages from these pages can be deleted, or the individuals presenting off-topic material be screened to a greater degree? The debate would certainly be easier to follow and contribute to ,without such nonsense.Kelly J. WilsonAlso I think it would help if someone would introduce a point-by-point list of the various contradiction in the first two Chapter of Genesis. From this, perhaps debate can be restored.

Kelly, we have a policy here of not deleting any posts, even when we would like to, It's hard to keep folk on topic and we understand your frustration.Heve you ever tried to herd kittens or baby ducks?

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How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

Hi, welcome back.Do you think you could provide unambiguous literary usage from Hebrew to substantiate your claim about cattle? I think I've fairly thouroghly rebutted it in regards to Genesis 1 and 2, specifically. Neither one of the chapters is longer than 31 verses. Is that truly necessary? An enumeration of the contradictions would be almost as long as the chapters themselves.

Hi...I've read all the posts here with great interest. I'm new to this forum and am not sure if my post "goes" here or should be a new thread. It does concern Genesis Creation Stories: Sequence Contradictions? but not the ones that have been discussed.Can someone explain the following:In Genesis, Chapter IV, verse 16, after killing Able, Cain "went out from the presense of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden." Verse 17 says, "And Cain knew his wife, and she conceived, and bore Enoch; and...." Then, verse 25 says: "And Adam knew his wife again, and she bore a son, and called his name Sheth; for God (said she) hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew."If Adam and Eve were the first people God created and if their first children were Cain and Able and if Adam 'knew his wife again'(AFTER Cain "went out from the presense of the Lord, and dwelt in the land of Nod, on the east of Eden") and the resulting son, Sheth, was a replacement for the loss of Able ...and if Cain took a wife in Nod, who, then, did Cain marry? More to the point, who were HER parents? It would seem that, at best, Cain's wife, while not named, had to have been a sister.I don't mean to offend, but it seems to me everyone must have been committing incest. However, the contradiction I see is that 'Adam knew his wife again' after Cain went to Nod. Therefore, there couldn't have been any women for him to marry when he was there.Does anyone know what Biblical experts say about these issues? (Incest and/or how Cain could have married in Nod?) Does anyone here have any comments?prattie

As has already been pointed out to you, the animals were created before man (Genesis 1) so Adam was already in the company of animals.When God says: "it is not good that the man should be alone", he is obviously referring to the lack of a help meet (another human) for him.It doesn't take a genius to see that Genesis 2 is the continuation of Genesis 1 since it begins like this: Genesis 2:1-2.

Beginning at Genesis 2:1, the earth is described as being finished- as it was described in Genesis 1. By your own admission, this condition was: Your arrogance doesn't serve you well Doctrbill.

Hi Prattie and welcome!You wrote: Yes, if two people have the job of populating a planet, there will be incest involved.

Dpardo - when do you think the division into chapters was done on the Bible? What does it say in Genesis 2:4?Read your book, man, before you start pontificating on what it means.