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Author Topic:   Christian Laws
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 136 of 392 (512933)
06-22-2009 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by jaywill
06-22-2009 7:43 AM


Re: The Master's Will
jaywill writes:
There is only one living God. There are not multiple "living Gods".
The expression: "Living God" suggests that there is a "Dead God," or perhaps many dead gods.
As the man said:
quote:
"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" Exodus 20:3
There must have been other Gods, else why would he be concerned about loyalty? Notice that he didn't say, "Thou shalt have no dead Gods before me." Why do you suppose that is? And if there is only one living god then Jesus of Nazareth could not be him, because Jesus was believed to be:
quote:
"... that Christ, the son of the living God." John 6:69
Jesus cannot be both: God and God's son, unless - being a "son of God" makes of one himself a God. And in that case, it would appear that many Jews were Gods, being as they were called "the sons of God."
quote:
"[Ye are] the sons of the living God. Hosea 1:10
And again:
quote:
"I have said, Ye [are] Gods; and all of you [are] children of the most High." Psalm 82:6
And,because they were Gods, everyone else was supposed to respect them:
quote:
"Thou shalt not revile the Gods" Exodus 22:28
Is there then, more than one God?
quote:
"... the God of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, ..." 2 Corinthians 4:4
Apparently there is more than one living God for a dead god woul be no threat, as "the God of this world" appears to have been.
God cannot be at war, as Christians claim him to be, unless there is at least one other God with whom to be at war. Otherwise, if "God" can be threatened by lesser beings, then "God" fails the definition of what it means to be "God," that is - The Creator and Supreme Ruler of the Universe.
If, on the other hand, as the Bible suggests, "God" is also a title of high office: an office occupied by a series of mortal men, only one of whom (at a time) is called "the living God," then we can take the words of Saint Paul to heart when he says,
quote:
"[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God." Hebrews 10:31
Otherwise, everything is and all of us are, all the time - "in the hands of God."
And that is, often enough, a very comfortable place to be.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 7:43 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 4:25 PM doctrbill has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 137 of 392 (512935)
06-22-2009 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by jaywill
06-22-2009 7:43 AM


Re: The Master's Will
jaywill writes:
... since I received Jesus Christ He certainly has a presence for me which I am enjoying at this moment.
I once felt that way. Long ago. Prior to studying the Bible for myself. Prior to testing the spirits. Shortly before the psychotic episode which awakened me.
jaywill writes:
You are speaking out of your lack of belief and shortage of experience.
The personal attack is a waste of your time. You know virtually nothing about me, and you have not, so far, altered my convictions.
The proofs you bring to establish your view seem quite limited when compared to the greater body of evidence (in Holy Scripture) which is clearly supportive of alternative opinions. I pray that you will continue to study all the scriptures, not just those of that highly questionable, one time sworn enemy of Christ, which you and so many so-called Christians take to be the posthumous voice of Jesus himself.
You know who I'm talking about.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 7:43 AM jaywill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 138 of 392 (512945)
06-22-2009 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by doctrbill
06-22-2009 1:31 PM


Re: The Master's Will
The expression: "Living God" suggests that there is a "Dead God," or perhaps many dead gods.
It suggests that the nations had gods. But Yahweh was the true God.
[b]"Thus says Jehovah the King of Israel, And his Redeemer, Jehovah ofhosts, I am the First and I am the Last, And apart from Me there is no God." (Isa. 44:6)
Jehovah (Yahweh) is the true God as the Uncreated Life, though many created evil angels and Satanic demons may have deceived the nations through the nation's idols.
"And you are My witnesses. Is there a God besides Me? Or is there any [other] Rock? I do not know of [any]." (44:8)
"Turn to Me and be saved, All the ends of the earth. For I am God adthere is no one else." (45:22)
We should not be confused by speech elsewhere which talks about the gods being judged and so forth. The God of Israel is the one Uncreated Life and as such is the living God.
As the man said:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Thou shalt have no other Gods before me" Exodus 20:3
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That utterance is similar to the declarations of Isaiah which I just quoted. "[N]o other gods before Me" does not negate that Jehovah is the God and there is none other. In other words false gods there certainly were.
There must have been other Gods, else why would he be concerned about loyalty? Notice that he didn't say, "Thou shalt have no dead Gods before me." Why do you suppose that is? And if there is only one living god then Jesus of Nazareth could not be him, because Jesus was believed to be:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"... that Christ, the son of the living God." John 6:69
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As said false gods there were and are.
As for Jesus being Son of God, the Bible means that He is God become a man. He is the mingling of God and man. It is as God is going through a kind of journey or process to make Himself one with man. Jesus as Son of God is a cardinal point in this process. He is God/Man united.
In Isaiah 9:6 there are two lines of revelation. One line is that the created child who is born will be called Mighty God. The other is that the Son given will be called Eternal Father.
This is Wonderful or PELEH. That word is used to discribe something too high for our powers to comprehend. For instance:
"O knowledge too wonderful [PELEH] for me! It is high, I cannot attain to it." (Psalm 139:6).
"Is anything too hard for the Lord?" (Gen. 18:14).
"Why do you ask My name, seeing it is Wonderful! (Judges 13:18)
Now I am called away to an errand and will have to talk latter.
But that Jesus, by saying He was Son of God, was perceived by the high priest to something OTHER than their Hebrew understanding of children or sons of God is evident.
"I charge You to swear by the living God to tell us if You are the Christ, the Son of God. Jesus said to him, You have said [rightly] Nevertheless I say to you, From noe on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.
Then the high priest tore his garment, saying, He has blashphemed ... now you have heart the blasphemy." (See Matt. 26:63-65)
Of course if Jesus saying He was the Son of God was a benigh matter that they might have applied to ANY typical Israelite they would not have charged Him with blasphemy and condemned Him to death.
So appealing to other references of God's children or sons ( of which references I am familiar ) you cannot dull the force of Christ's claim.
Similiarly, they understood His proclaimation to be Son of God in John 5:18 was making Himself equal with God. Jesus in His reply acknowledges that the phrase has been used elsewhere in Scripture. But He does not back away from the fact that He is a unique One consecrated and sent into the world.
I have to stop here for now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by doctrbill, posted 06-22-2009 1:31 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by doctrbill, posted 06-22-2009 5:56 PM jaywill has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 139 of 392 (512951)
06-22-2009 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by jaywill
06-22-2009 12:14 PM


Re: The Master's Will
quote:
But the way I speak to you is the way I would speak to ANY convert to the Gospel. First you have to learn to Abide in Him and allow Him to Abide in you.
Well stop, you aren't taking to converts. It is a debate and the task is to provide the Christian Laws (Peg's term, not mine) for which Christians are held accountable.
quote:
One more time. Start here with this requirement - Abide in Me and I in you.
Chapter 15 from the Book of John (90-120CE). Jesus is talking to his disciples there with him. What makes that a practical application for the average Christian today?
The "laws" don't have to be thou shalt or shalt not, but they do need to be clear instructions and not ambiguous catch phrases and metaphors.
Example in your own words: So to abide in the Lord and to allow His grace to empower them to live Christ they must excercise their spirit and turn to their spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is.
quote:
Once again, the Christian's very first requirement is to abide in Him and allow Him to abide in us.
So what is the practical application of this requirement?
How does one or anyone else know if one is achieving this requirement?

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 12:14 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 6:26 PM purpledawn has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 140 of 392 (512952)
06-22-2009 5:56 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by jaywill
06-22-2009 4:25 PM


Re: The Master's Will
jaywill writes:
The God of Israel is the one Uncreated Life and as such is the living God.
That is one opinion Jay, but it is not a Scriptural statement and it fails to explain a considerable number of scriptural statements which lead to a different conclusion.
That is what I am saying.
The theory which you espouse, is one with which I am quite familiar. It may seem plausible given the proof texts which are trotted out in favor of it but it avoids certain plain statements which you have also avoided in our brief discussion here. The preponderance of textual material which purports to explain "the Christ" is drawn from the writings of a man whose initial mission was to undermine the movement which Jesus had inspired. Seems to me that a man who never met Jesus and teaches things which apparently contradict Jesus, is a poor source of information regarding the nature of Jesus.
Do you suppose you could argue the nature of Christ without resorting those highly suspect writings of that insidious anti-Christian agent of the Jewish government?
Dare I hope?
Nonetheless I wish.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 4:25 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 6:45 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 141 of 392 (512958)
06-22-2009 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by purpledawn
06-22-2009 5:56 PM


Re: The Master's Will
Well stop, you aren't taking to converts.
Not phrased well. What I mean is that what I am telling you about "abiding" in Christ and learning to let Christ abide in you, is something we never graduate from. Whether a brand new Christian just regenerated or one of many years. It is also appropriate to a seeking person wanting to know about Christ's requirement.
You're at least asking. I don't know if you are seeking Christ or something else.
"As you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him"
It is a debate and the task is to provide the Christian Laws (Peg's term, not mine) for which Christians are held accountable.
I am discussing. However I am not arguing for Peg. Neither did I agree with all that I saw Peg wrote. However, I may not have read every post you or Peg wrote on this thread.
I'm not arguing for Peg.
Chapter 15 from the Book of John (90-120CE). Jesus is talking to his disciples there with him. What makes that a practical application for the average Christian today?
Because Jesus told John and the 12 "Go therefore and disciple all the nations ... teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. (Matt. 28:19)
Why do you think John included that statement in his Gospel ? The plot thickens ? I hope.
The "laws" don't have to be thou shalt or shalt not, but they do need to be clear instructions and not ambiguous catch phrases and metaphors.
Example in your own words: So to abide in the Lord and to allow His grace to empower them to live Christ they must excercise their spirit and turn to their spirit where the Spirit of Jesus is.
Do you believe that Jesus rose fromt the dead ? If you do not then you'll be perplexed as to how in the world we can abide in Him.
First you have to believe that Christ is alive to abide in. Then you excercise some faith to receive Him. Now, I didn't say it is always easy.
But we can receive Christ and abide in Christ. Some biographes are good on this. One old classic one was called The Practice of the Presence of God by one cook among monks Brother Lawrence.
This is not a recommnendation of a monk like life. That is not the point. My point is that this Christian wrote a book long regarded as helpful for many years, on abiding in Christ's presence.
The Normal Christian Life by Watchman Nee is also excellent.
Help is there if you really want it. Thank God every Christian didn't throw up their hands in dispair resigned that the New Testament was too obscure to be meaningful.
So what is the practical application of this requirement?
How does one or anyone else know if one is achieving this requirement?
It is its own fundamental requirement. Without abiding in Him we can do nothing. Or another way said, We may do a lot but for God's kingdom it will all amount to nothing.
This is a discussion Internet style and I don't intend to write a book here to answer some of your questions in great detail.
But for learning all about the experience of Christian life I would recommend two books by Witness Lee -
"The Experience of Life" and "The Knowledge of Life"
The English word here for Life means the Greek word ZOE - the divine life. From regeneration to learning to walk in the Spirit these books were very practical and helpful to many including myself.
Here is a look inside the book The Knowledge of Life.
Hit the tag on the right that says "Look inside the book".
Perhaps you could first look at the chapter titles or read some portions.
Online Shopping India Mobile, Cameras, Lifestyle & more Online @ Flipkart.com
To abide in Christ you have to learn how to deal with many things like confession of sins, opening the soul to Christ, obeying the sense of life, learning to feed the inner man with the word of God, fellowshipping with other Christians, etc. many lessons.
With patience and practice and a life long commitment of consecration, we, just like John or Paul or Peter, may learn to abide in Christ and He abide in us.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by purpledawn, posted 06-22-2009 5:56 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by purpledawn, posted 06-22-2009 8:41 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 142 of 392 (512960)
06-22-2009 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by doctrbill
06-22-2009 5:56 PM


Re: The Master's Will
That is one opinion Jay, but it is not a Scriptural statement and it fails to explain a considerable number of scriptural statements which lead to a different conclusion.
Genesis 1:1 states " In the beginning God created that heavens and the earth".
It stands to reason that since He preceeded all creation He is Uncreated Life. It certainly says that of no other being. And there is no hint that God's life had a beginning - "From eternity to eternity You are God".
So God as the Uncreated Life is quite logical biblically speaking.
Incidently, I am glad that you got professional attention with the psychotic problems you mentioned briefly. I am happy that someone was able to help you. God does provide guidance to medical attention sometimes.
He used Luke, a physician, to write the Gospel of Luke and the book of Acts. And this doctor was a traveling companion of the Apostle Paul.
So being a Christian never need be ANTI medical or ANTI mental health.
The theory which you espouse, is one with which I am quite familiar. It may seem plausible given the proof texts which are trotted out in favor of it but it avoids certain plain statements which you have also avoided in our brief discussion here.
What did I avoid ? I did have to run off for an errand. Can't type here all day.
Did I leave some comment of yours unaddressed ? I usually try to answer any reasonably respectful inquiry if I can.
The preponderance of textual material which purports to explain "the Christ" is drawn from the writings of a man whose initial mission was to undermine the movement which Jesus had inspired.
Now we can talk about your OWN theories put forth.
Paul, if you mean Paul, was very faithful as an apostle of Jesus.
Seems to me that a man who never met Jesus and teaches things which apparently contradict Jesus, is a poor source of information regarding the nature of Jesus.
What did Paul say about that ?
What did Jesus say about that ?
Both said that they had met one another in the book of Acts.
And he acted like it. And the other apostles realized that he acted like it. And Peter recommended his writings as scripture.
Do you suppose you could argue the nature of Christ without resorting those highly suspect writings of that insidious anti-Christian agent of the Jewish government?
That's a loaded question. Its like "Have you stopped beating your wife yet?"
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by doctrbill, posted 06-22-2009 5:56 PM doctrbill has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 143 of 392 (512964)
06-22-2009 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by jaywill
06-22-2009 6:26 PM


Re: The Master's Will
quote:
To abide in Christ you have to learn how to deal with many things like confession of sins, opening the soul to Christ, obeying the sense of life, learning to feed the inner man with the word of God, fellowshipping with other Christians, etc. many lessons.
The commandments are the key to abiding according to this author.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
quote:
With patience and practice and a life long commitment of consecration, we, just like John or Paul or Peter, may learn to abide in Christ and He abide in us.
It would go faster if someone just knew what the commandments were just like John, Paul, and Peter did. Not so much left to wild interpretation.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jaywill, posted 06-22-2009 6:26 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 12:02 PM purpledawn has replied
 Message 145 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 12:41 PM purpledawn has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 144 of 392 (512989)
06-23-2009 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by purpledawn
06-22-2009 8:41 PM


Re: The Master's Will
The commandments are the key to abiding according to this author.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
That's right. You abide in Him receive His commandments, obey, and abide in His love. No contradiction.
But you have to abide in Him in order to receive His moment by moment commandments.
To begin abiding in Him you first have to confess that you are a sinner in need of forgiveness and Christ as your Lord and Savior.
"As many as RECEIVED Him, to them He gave the authority to become childen of God, to those who believe into His name,
Who were begotten not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." (John 1:12,13)
You begin to abide in Him by receiving Him as He is - a resurrected and living Person to be your Lord and Savior.
At this juncture many "curious" people will object that this is evangelism and not debate. They have a point. But that is what happens when you ask more and more questions about a real yet subjectve relationship with God. Eventually, you have to be led to the point of CONTACT of this Living Jesus Christ.
I have told you that Christ is alive and became "a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45) As a life giving Spirit, God in Christ can install Himself into the innermost being of the repentent and believing sinner. This happened to me.
You may want to say "I don't want Jesus. I just want the commands, you see?"
I can't help you. And if that means to you that you have won some debate, by all means declare victory.
But for the record, the way you learn to hear and receive His instant commands is to receive Him and learn through patience to abide in Him.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by purpledawn, posted 06-22-2009 8:41 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by purpledawn, posted 06-23-2009 4:42 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 145 of 392 (512992)
06-23-2009 12:41 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by purpledawn
06-22-2009 8:41 PM


Positive and Negative Consequences to the Saved
It would go faster if someone just knew what the commandments were just like John, Paul, and Peter did. Not so much left to wild interpretation.
The wild imagtination is in those who want to invent a non Christ Christian life. They imagine that they can do anything without abiding in Christ. He said that apart from Him we can do nothing.
John, Peter, Paul all learned to abide in the living Christ. There is no "short cut".
Now on consequences there are positive ones and negative ones. Some Christian teachers like to acknowledge the positive ones but not the negative ones. If we be fair and balanced we have to admit that there are not only rewards to the believers for cooperation with Grace. There are also punishments for being "defeated".
To overcome is to be qualified to receive a reward from Jesus as a positive consequence. This is in addition to eternal life as a GIFT.
To be defeated is to be qualified to receive discipline, perfecting, and punishment. This punishment is temporary and is dispensed after the second coming of Christ and ends sometime before the beginning of the age of the new heaven and new earth.
You have to read Revelation 20 and 21 to get this sense.
A short corner study of the matter is seen in Paul's First Corinthian letter. All the believers will be examined by Christ as to their Christian life. Some will be rewarded and some will be saved "yet so as through fire". This is in chapter 3.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by purpledawn, posted 06-22-2009 8:41 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by purpledawn, posted 06-23-2009 4:52 PM jaywill has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 146 of 392 (512997)
06-23-2009 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by jaywill
06-23-2009 12:02 PM


Re: The Master's Will
quote:
But you have to abide in Him in order to receive His moment by moment commandments.
So Christians get moment by moment commandment updates. They don't have them provided in the NT.
So only those tuned in can actually know what is expected of them. Interesting.
You could actually be wrong about the process to receive such updates. How would you know if you were wrong or how would anyone else know that what you presented was right or wrong? Just trust the unknown man behind the screen?
Not good to come before the Master and find out that you got the wrong message.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 12:02 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 7:14 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 147 of 392 (512998)
06-23-2009 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by jaywill
06-23-2009 12:41 PM


Re: Positive and Negative Consequences to the Saved
quote:
The wild imagtination is in those who want to invent a non Christ Christian life. They imagine that they can do anything without abiding in Christ. He said that apart from Him we can do nothing.
According to you. Of course since nobody seems to know the commandments today, everyone is apart from Jesus.
quote:
John, Peter, Paul all learned to abide in the living Christ. There is no "short cut".
John and Peter actually heard Jesus so they had the commandments. You bet they had a short cut. They had a direct line. Christians don't have that today. Paul had access to the original disciples, so again a direct line to information.
Not quite the same set up as Christians have today after 2000 years of drift.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 12:41 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 6:26 PM purpledawn has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 148 of 392 (513001)
06-23-2009 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by purpledawn
06-23-2009 4:52 PM


Re: Positive and Negative Consequences to the Saved
John and Peter actually heard Jesus so they had the commandments. You bet they had a short cut. They had a direct line. Christians don't have that today. Paul had access to the original disciples, so again a direct line to information.
Not quite the same set up as Christians have today after 2000 years of drift.
Drift happened even in the first century. But Jesus is still the same and still has overcoming followers in these last centuries.
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes, even forever. Do not be carried away by various and strange teachings ..." (Hebrews 13:8,9a)
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by purpledawn, posted 06-23-2009 4:52 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by purpledawn, posted 06-23-2009 7:16 PM jaywill has replied

  
jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 149 of 392 (513003)
06-23-2009 7:14 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by purpledawn
06-23-2009 4:42 PM


Re: The Master's Will
So Christians get moment by moment commandment updates. They don't have them provided in the NT.
Obviously life can be very complex. There is no Bible verse telling us exactly what to do in billions of situations.
You're trying to push me into imagining a New Testament with a trillion pages of commandments covering all manner of very detailed situations. So we need the living Lord along with the living word.
You're not clever purpledawn. Your argument is not clever.
The Apostle John said that the teaching of the anointing teaches the disciples to abide in Him: In traffic, in the living room, in the bedroom, at the office, everywhere, in all manner of complex situations NOT specifically detailed in the Bible, we are to abide in Him. The anointing of the Spirit teaches that.
And you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know.... And as for you, the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you, but as His anointing teches you concerning all things and is true and is not a lie, and even as it has taught you, abide in Him" (See 1 John 2:20,27)
This comment is not an exhaustive discussion of an rather involved subject.
But the anointing means a kind of rubbing or painting. The idea here is that God is painting His nature into the believer. God is rubbing His Spirit into the soul of the believer.
This anointing teaches concerning all things. No, it does not mean that the Christians need no teachers. Don't knee jerk into that cynical objection. Obviously there were teachers as well as evangelists and shepherd etc.
The anointing teaches the Christian on a detailed level that which cannot always be taught. "What shall I do with my unborn baby? What shall I do with my job? How shall I speak to this person?"
Many many down to earth circumstances require the teaching of the anointing to guide the Christian. It teaches them to abide in Christ.
Often abiding in Christ is something that the disciples are aware of when they failed to abide. Like your physical health. When you are healthy you are not very aware of your body. If something goes wrong with your body you become aware that something is wrong.
It is similar with walking in the Holy Spirit and abiding in the teaching of the anointing. You may not be aware of Him until you step out of His guiding. Then the troubling within and the lack of peace alerts the Christian that something is wrong.
This requires a life time of ever deepening learning. We have no short cut for you. You learn with patience.
We all, that is ALL naturally want to follow only our OWN tastes, attitudes, and actions. We enjoy doing whatever we want when we want to. To follow Christ involves often saying "No" to the self and saying "Yes" to the indwelling Spirit of Christ.
Yes, there are many instructions even commands in the New Testament. Trying to divorce these from the living Spirit as "Christian Laws" will not work.
Some people are concerned that Christians are attempting to put these Laws into social laws to govern society. People like you resent that and go on the offensive demanding that these "Christian Laws" be enumerated so that they may exploit philosophical and practical weaknesses.
Doing this justifies them that they need no listen to "Christian Laws".
Maybe some of the principles in the Bible would make good laws for the society. Of course the Bible has had an enfluence on western society - some good and some not good, depending upon how applied and the motive with which they were applied.
The normal Christian life is one of abiding in the Lord Jesus. The Bible is there to feed and sensitize the conscience. But the vitality comes from abiding in the living Lord. And the details of most of out circustances cannot always be found to have a specific command for.
The disciples has to walk in the Spirit and allow the anointing to teach them to follow, as it were, the index of the eyes of Jesus, guiding her. This is step by step guidance from a very wise God. And it takes time to learn.
So only those tuned in can actually know what is expected of them. Interesting.
What is interesting about it?
You could actually be wrong about the process to receive such updates.
You call them "updates". I call it a sweet constant fellowship with Christ. Paul's final word in the NT was to Timothy. He wanted his young co-worker to remember above all one thing -
"The Lord be with your spirit."
Christ the Lord can be with our innermost being. This is really miraculous. But it is also a miraculous normality. Paul wanted Timothy to remember that Jesus Christ Himself is WITH his spirit - his kernel and innermost being.
"The Lord be with your spirit. Grace be with you." (2 Tim. 4:23)
The grace is the enjoyment of God Himself. And the grace of God is with the Lord Jesus who is in the innermost being, the human spirit of those who have been saved and received Him.
How would you know if you were wrong or how would anyone else know that what you presented was right or wrong? Just trust the unknown man behind the screen?
In the Christian life we disciples are going to make mistakes. Sometimes we will take our own feeling as that of the Spirit. Sometime we will miss the Spirit and assume it was our own thought.
Christ mingles in the human personality in a very unabtrusive way. It is perhaps this reason that the symbol of the Holy Spirit is a DOVE bird. The dove is easily frightened away. The dove is gentle. Christ within is very strong but very gentle.
He may give a command within. The slightest resistence may cause Him to withdraw for a season. He will come again and work with the disciple until the disciple learns to recognize His voice.
Once again, this requires a life time of patience and learning. You are gradually turning over more and more of your soul to God as He dispenses His life and nature into you.
Not good to come before the Master and find out that you got the wrong message.
We also have the blood of Jesus to cover our mistakes:
"If we confess our sins He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Aside from confessing our mistakes, mistarts, errors which will happen, there is also the matter of our forgiveness of others.
All the diciples of Jesus are bound to make mistakes. Paul made mistakes and he was quite mature. So did Peter and John make mistakes. We cannot avoid as disciples of Jesus, to make some mistakes.
Now HOW the Lord Jesus will deal with His disciples is also enfluenences with HOW they dealt with other disciples and other people. If I am forgiving with others, the Lord will be forgiving to me on that day.
"Blessed are the merciful for they shall obtain mercy"
As we judged He will judge me. The life of the kingdom of God is a life which is strict towards the self but merciful and accomodating towards others.
The kingdom people should be strict with themselves in Christ and accomodating and merciful towards others. He warned us, to those who are strict only towards others yet loose and merciful to themselves, He will be stricter in judgment.
That's all here.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by purpledawn, posted 06-23-2009 4:42 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by purpledawn, posted 06-23-2009 7:46 PM jaywill has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 150 of 392 (513004)
06-23-2009 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by jaywill
06-23-2009 6:26 PM


Re: Positive and Negative Consequences to the Saved
quote:
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes, even forever. Do not be carried away by various and strange teachings ..." (Hebrews 13:8,9a)
Good to know I'm not supposed to get carried away by your various and strange teachings.
Without checks and balances, people can't really tell what is required and what is strange. Notice what you dish out compared to what Peg dishes out. Which one is strange?
Neither can list the Master's will.

"Peshat is what I say and derash is what you say." --Nehama Leibowitz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 6:26 PM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by jaywill, posted 06-23-2009 7:29 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
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