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Author Topic:   Scientific vs Creationist Frauds and Hoaxes
Portillo
Member (Idle past 535 days)
Posts: 258
Joined: 11-14-2010


Message 106 of 196 (657818)
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


Piltdown man - In 1912, Charles Dawson went to the Piltdown mines and uncovered a transitional fossil between apes and humans. After 40 years, Piltdown man was discovered to be a hoax. Somebody had filed down an orangutan jaw and human skull and buried it in a gravel pit.

Nebraska man - In 1922, a tooth was found that was 1 million years old and combined the characteristics of a chimpanzee and man. Later they found the full skeleton and Nebraska man was an extinct pig.

Java man - Java man was built on a skullcap and teeth now known to have belonged to an orangutan or gibbon.

Leakey footprints - Footprints were discovered in ash layers that were dated to 3.5 million years ago, around the time apes started walking erect. A scientist by the name of Russell Tuttle later began studying tribal people that walk around their whole lives barefoot. And observed that the arch in their foot completely disappears, are completely flatfooted and leave tracks identical to the footprints in the ash.

Neanderthal man - Neanderthal is sometimes portrayed as an ignorant, primitive. knuckledragging apeman. But research shows that neanderthal was highly intelligent and superior. Their cranium was 13% bigger than humans. They made advanced instruments and technology. Makeup has been found, proving that neanderthal women were fashionable. A scientist discovered that some neanderthals were 200 years old.

Orce man - Found in 1982, Orce man was supposedly a 17 year old male who lived 1.6 million years ago. Later it was discovered to be the fossil of a donkey not a human.


And the conspiracy was strong, for the people increased continually - 2 Samuel 15:12

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1547
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


(2)
Message 107 of 196 (657819)
03-30-2012 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Portillo
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


Piltdown man

Was suspected of being a hoax almost from the start and the "finders" of the skull soon stopped exhibiting it. Proven to be a hoax by SCIENCE.

Nebraska man

Named by a newspaper writer, not by scientists.

Also these two were dealt with by RAZD in the first post.

Java man was built on a skullcap and teeth now known to have belonged to an orangutan or gibbon

Care to substantiate this claim.

They made advanced instruments and technology.

Care to substantiate this claim.

A scientist discovered that some neanderthals were 200 years old

Care to substantiate this claim?

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.

Edited by DrJones*, : No reason given.


God separated the races and attempting to mix them is like attempting to mix water with diesel fuel.- Buzsaw Message 177

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 2216
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 108 of 196 (657825)
03-31-2012 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by DrJones*
03-30-2012 11:44 PM


Actually, I think we can learn a lot about ourselves and how science works from Piltdown Man. The Skeptic Dictionary has a nice article on it:

Piltdown hoax

Piltdown was an archaeological site in England where in 1908 and 1912 human, ape and other mammal fossils were found together. In 1913 at a nearby site was found an ape's jaw with a canine tooth worn down like a human's. The general community of British paleoanthropologists came to accept the idea that the fossil remains belonged to a single creature that had had a human cranium and an ape's jaw. In 1953, Piltdown 'man' was exposed as a forgery. The skull was modern and the teeth on the ape's jaw had been filed down.

To those who are skeptical of science, such as Charles Fort and the Forteans, such episodes as Piltdown are taken to be proof that science is, more or less, bunk. To those who have a better understanding of the nature and limits of science, Piltdown is little more than a wrong turn down a series of roads which, despite such detours, eventually arrives at the right destination.

How had so many scientists been duped? Stephen Jay Gould offers several reasons, among them wishful thinking and cultural bias. The latter, no doubt, played a role in the lack of critical thinking among British paleoanthropologists. But, above all, the Piltdown forgery demonstrates the fallibility of scientific knowledge. It demonstrates, too, the way theories and facts are related in science. Theories are the filters through which facts are interpreted (Popper). Theories try to explain and make sense of facts. On the other hand, facts are used to test theories. Gould notes that today a human cranium with an ape's jaw is considered to be extremely implausible and far-fetched. But in the early part of this century, anthropologists were imbued with the cultural prejudice which considered man's big brain as his ticket to rule, the main evolutionary feature that made it possible for man to develop all his other unique features. Since there was a pre-conceived notion that man's brain must have developed to its human size before other changes occurred in human structure, a human cranium with an ape's jaw didn't arouse as much suspicion as it would today. Fossil discoveries since Piltdown clearly show a progression from small-brained but upright, hence non-simian hominids, to larger-brained upright humans. Scientists "modeled the facts" and confirmed their theory, "another illustration," says Gould, "that information always reaches us through the strong filters of culture, hope, and expectation" (Gould 1982, p. 118). Once committed to a theory, we see what fits with the theory.

The main reason Piltdown was not spotted as a fraud much earlier was that scientists weren't allowed to see the evidence, which was kept securely locked in the British Museum. Instead of focusing their attention on examining the "facts" more closely with an eye to discovering the fraud, scientists weren't even allowed to examine the physical evidence at all! They had to deal with plaster molds and be satisfied with a quick look at the originals to justify the claim that the models were accurate.

Another reason some scientists were duped was probably because it was not in their nature to consider someone would be so malicious as to intentionally engage in such deception. In any case, one of the main fallouts of Piltdown has been a virtual industry of detectives trying to identify the hoaxer. The list of suspects includes:

Charles Dawson, an amateur archaeologist who brought in the first cranial fragments from Piltdown;

Tielhard de Chardin, theologian and scientist who accompanied Dawson and Arthur Smith Woodward (Keeper of Geology at the British Museum [Natural History] in 1912) to Piltdown on expeditions where they discovered the mandible;

W. J. Sollas, a professor of geology at Oxford;

Grafton Elliot Smith, who wrote a paper on the find in 1913;

Arthur Conan Doyle, the creator of Sherlock Holmes; and

Martin A. C. Hinton, a curator of zoology at the time of the Piltdown hoax. A trunk with Hinton's initials on it was found in an attic of London's Natural History Museum. The trunk contained bones stained and carved in the same way as the Piltdown fossils.

The evidence in each case is circumstantial and not very strong. What is highly probable is that there will be more books speculating on the identity of the Piltdown hoaxer.

the moral of Piltdown

The moral of Piltdown is that science is a fallible, human activity which does not always take the most direct route in fulfilling its aim of understanding nature. When an anomaly such as the discovery of a human cranium with an ape's jaw occurs one must either fit it into a new theory, re-examine the evidence for error in discovery or interpretation, or show that the so-called anomaly is not really an anomaly at all but in fact fits with current theory. Which route a scientist takes may be guided more by personal hopes and cultural prejudices than by some mythical objectivity characterized by the collection and accumulation of colorless, impersonal facts to be pigeonholed dogmatically into a General Theory of Objective Truth and Knowledge.

But to characterize scientists as arrogant buffoons making claims that often turn out to be false, and to make a caricature out of science because it is not infallible and does not arrive at absolutely certain claims, belies a grave misunderstanding of the nature of science. The buffoons are those who demand absolute certainty where none can be had; the buffoons are those who do not understand the value and beauty of probabilities in science. The arrogant ones are those who think that science is mere speculation because scientists make errors, even egregious errors, or at times even commit fraud to push their prejudices. The arrogant ones are those who can't tell the difference between a testable and an untestable hypothesis and who think one speculation is as good as another. The buffoons are those who think that since both scientists and creationists or other pseudoscientists pose theories, each is doing essentially the same thing. However, all theories are not empirical, and of those that are empirical not all are equally speculative. Furthermore, those creationists who think that Piltdown demonstrates that scientists can't accurately date bones should remember that methods of dating such things have greatly improved since 1910.*

Because of the public nature of science and the universal application of its methods, and because of the fact that the majority of scientists are not crusaders for their own untested or untestable prejudices, as many pseudoscientists are, whatever errors are made by scientists are likely to be discovered by other scientists. The discovery will be enough to get science back on track. The same can't be said for the history of quacks and pseudoscientists where errors do not get detected because their claims are not tested properly. And when critics identify errors, they are ignored by true believers.

(note: Yet another book on the Piltdown hoax has been published since the Hinton trunk discovery. Unraveling Piltdown: The Science Fraud of the Century and Its Solution by John Evangelist Walsh (Random House, 1996) points the finger at Dawson once again.)

See also Aztec UFO hoax, Blondlot, Cardiff Giant, Carlos hoax, Cottingly fairy hoax, Arthur Ford hoax, Forteans, Ica stones, Mary Toft hoax, orgone energy, pathological science, Piltdown hoax, Pufedorf hoax, Steve Terbot, hoax, and the Sokal hoax.

reader comments

further reading

books and articles

Anderson, Robert B. "The Case of the Missing Link," Pacific Discovery (Spring 1996).

Feder, Kenneth L. "Piltdown, Paradigms, and the Paranormal." Skeptical Inquirer 14.4 (1990) 397-402.

Gee, Henry. "Box of Bones 'Clinches' Identity of Piltdown Paleontology Hoaxer," Nature (May 23, 1996).

Gould, Stephen Jay. "Evolution as Fact and Theory," in Hen's Teeth and Horse's Toes (New York: W.W. Norton & Company, 1983).

Gould, Stephen Jay. "Piltdown Revisited," in The Panda's Thumb, (New York: W.W Norton and Company, 1982).

Johanson, Donald C. and Maitland A. Edey. Lucy, the beginnings of humankind (New York : Simon and Schuster, 1981).

Popper, Karl R. The Logic of Scientific Discovery (New York: Harper Torchbooks, 1959).

websites

The Perpetrator at Piltdown by John Hathaway Winslow and Alfred Meyer

Richard Harter's Piltdown Man Page Focuses mainly on who might have perpetrated the hoax.

A Mostly Complete Piltdown Man Bibliography by Tom Turrittin

Piltdown Man - The Bogus Bones Caper by Richard Harter

Piltdown: the man who never was by Lee Krystek

The Piltdown Plot

The Debunking of Three Hoaxes by James Opie

The Piltdown Forgery by Shireen Gonzaga

http://www.skepdic.com/piltdown.html


Life, don't talk to me about life - Marvin the Paranoid Android

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by DrJones*, posted 03-30-2012 11:44 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 87 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 109 of 196 (657830)
03-31-2012 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Portillo
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


I know you don't ever support your claims, but...
Portillo writes:

Orce man - Found in 1982, Orce man was supposedly a 17 year old male who lived 1.6 million years ago. Later it was discovered to be the fossil of a donkey not a human.


No, it wasn't later discovered to be a donkey.

Tradition and heritage are all dead people's baggage. Stop carrying it!

This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 13032
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.3


(2)
Message 110 of 196 (657834)
03-31-2012 7:41 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Portillo
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


Hi Portillo,

The goal of this thread is not to prove that scientists are morally superior to creationists and therefore do not engage in frauds and hoaxes. Scientists are still human, after all, vulnerable to all the ills that flesh is heir and all that. Nor do scientists possess any special qualities that render them immune to being fooled by frauds and hoaxes, at least those that possess the required technical sophistication.

The true purpose of this thread is to clearly illustrate that science possesses intellectual honesty and creationism does not. The various frauds and hoaxes that you list are all acknowledged by science, with the exception of those that are actually creationist misrepresentations.

You can actually help this thread makes its point by denying that the creationist misrepresentations are just that. That by itself is insufficient, but then we will provide you correct information backed by evidence and references, and you'll still deny they are misrepresentations, and the thread's point will have been made.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Portillo, posted 03-30-2012 11:20 PM Portillo has not yet responded

    
Pressie
Member
Posts: 784
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 111 of 196 (658052)
04-02-2012 4:45 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Portillo
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


Portillo writes:

Leakey footprints - Footprints were discovered in ash layers that were dated to 3.5 million years ago,….

Geologists determined the age of the rocks these footprints were found in. Those rocks have an age of around 3.6 million years. Way more than 10 000 years old.
Portillo writes:

… around the time apes started walking erect.

Actually, no. Bipedal specializations are found in Australopithecus fossils from 4.2-3.9 million years ago. The footprints you are referring to date from around 3.6 million years old, found in the same strata as a. afarensis fossils.
Portillo writes:

A scientist by the name of Russell Tuttle….

You mean the same scientist who studied these footprints and determined that these a. afarensis creatures, who left these prints, walked bipedally in a fashion almost identical to human beings? That one?
Portillo writes:

….later began studying tribal people that walk around their whole lives barefoot. And observed that the arch in their foot completely disappears, are completely flatfooted and leave tracks identical to the footprints in the ash.

The same one that determined that the creatures (a. afarensis) leaving these prints walked bipedally in a fashion almost identical to human beings from studdying those prints?

Source for some of the information: http://humanorigins.si.edu/...avior/laetoli-footprint-trails

Sorry, I can’t see where any fraud or hoaxes are involved in this. Could you please highlight where you think fraud or hoaxes were committed?

Edited by Pressie, : Added the word hoaxes

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : Added source

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Portillo, posted 03-30-2012 11:20 PM Portillo has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15735
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 112 of 196 (658162)
04-02-2012 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Portillo
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


Hi Portillo,

Piltdown man
Nebraska man

See Message 1

Java man - Java man was built on a skullcap and teeth now known to have belonged to an orangutan or gibbon.

Orce man - Found in 1982, Orce man was supposedly a 17 year old male who lived 1.6 million years ago. Later it was discovered to be the fossil of a donkey not a human.

It appears you are quoting a creationist hoax\fraud here -- source please.

These have also been discussed before on this website: see EVOLUTION'S FRAUD HAS CONTRIBUTED TO ITS PUBLIC ACCEPTANCE: and note that it is the thread that inspired this one.

Leakey footprints - Footprints were discovered in ash layers that were dated to 3.5 million years ago, around the time apes started walking erect. A scientist by the name of Russell Tuttle later began studying tribal people that walk around their whole lives barefoot. And observed that the arch in their foot completely disappears, are completely flatfooted and leave tracks identical to the footprints in the ash.

There is more to the matching of footprints to australopiticines than a flat arch. The shape of the foot, and in particular the splayed first toe also match the bone structure of australopithicines.

Please note that you not only need to show false information be promoted by a scientist (or group of), you need to show that there is intent to deceive:

quote:
Message 1: Here are some definitions:

fraud -n1. A deception deliberately practiced in order to secure unfair or unlawful gain.
2. A piece of trickery; a trick.
3.
    a. One that defrauds; a cheat.
    b. One who assumes a false pose; an impostor.
(American Heritage Dictionary, 2009)

hoax -n
1. An act intended to deceive or trick.
2. Something that has been established or accepted by fraudulent means.
(American Heritage Dictionary, 2009)

GROUND RULES:


  • it must meet the definitions given above
  • to be a "scientific hoax\fraud" it needs to be deliberately perpetuated by a scientist, preferably an evolutionary biological scientist (cold fusion does not qualify)
  • to be a "creationist hoax\fraud" it needs to be deliberately perpetuated by a creationist

Pretty simple criteria.

Posting a falsehood on a website and claiming that it is true meets this criteria, especially if it has been pointed out to be false.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 56 days)
Posts: 872
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


(1)
Message 113 of 196 (658183)
04-03-2012 6:15 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Portillo
03-30-2012 11:20 PM


Java man still a man
Java man - Java man was built on a skullcap and teeth now known to have belonged to an orangutan or gibbon.

Just to clarify RAZD's response, this one is simply untrue. I can find claims by scientists that the thigh bone originally attributed to Java Man (which was found along with the skullcap and teeth) does not belong with the others and is actually the thigh bone of an anatomically modern human; but no-one seems to be classifying the
skullcap and teeth fossils as anything but Homo erectus. Encyclopoedia Britannica says:

quote:
Java man, extinct hominin (member of the human lineage) known from fossil remains found on the island of Java, Indonesia. A skullcap and thighbone discovered by the Dutch anatomist and geologist Eugène Dubois in the early 1890s were the first known fossils of the species Homo erectus.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Portillo, posted 03-30-2012 11:20 PM Portillo has not yet responded

  
ScottyDouglas
Member (Idle past 706 days)
Posts: 79
Joined: 05-10-2012


(1)
Message 114 of 196 (661825)
05-10-2012 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by RAZD
01-11-2009 9:40 AM


I do not know whats worse a mans belief that he can actually date billions of years,(BTW)if you can date back you could forward as well.Why arent we traveling in the future yet.Or if he thinks any of that crap changes his life any.Or that men-people think they are mutants.Thats what science has broke us down to we are brothers and sisters to every species on earth and not only that but we are not even human being we are mutant human beings.I mean actually a human would be a species originally on this planet but we are not we mutated from our original parent.

Also when the evidence gets out that they have giants bones over 10 to 30 feet tall from the past then that will hurt evoultion.No explanation for it, why its hidden.Then if we last another couple hundred years and see we still arent evolving and neither are other species then it will start putting doubts.Thier are many lies.But you actually think someone will find refutable evidence unless by dumb luck or hardcore research then your right.You love to debate it.No because you like smash creationist but because you want someone to.Cause inside you know it but you cant prove it.thats the reason for this thread.
http://www.6000years.org/frame.php?page=giants
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/giants.htm
http://theunexplainedmysteries.com/giant-bones.html
http://www.stangrist.com/giants.htm

Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.

Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by RAZD, posted 01-11-2009 9:40 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by fearandloathing, posted 05-10-2012 4:42 PM ScottyDouglas has responded
 Message 121 by RAZD, posted 05-10-2012 5:55 PM ScottyDouglas has responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 115 of 196 (661826)
05-10-2012 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by ScottyDouglas
05-10-2012 4:21 PM


I do not know whats worse a mans belief that he can actually date billions of years,(BTW)if you can date back you could forward as well.Why arent we traveling in the future yet

Ummm..... Because time travel has nothing to do with dating.

Or if he thinks any of that crap changes his life any.Or that men-people think they are mutants.Thats what science has broke us down to we are brothers and sisters to every species on earth and not only that but we are not even human being we are mutant human beings.I mean actually a human would be a species originally on this planet but we are not we mutated from our original parent.

Care to clarify this part of your rant? It really doesn't make sense to me.

Also when the evidence gets out that they have giants bones over 10 to 30 feet tall from the past then that will hurt evoultion.No explanation for it, why its hidden

Care to provide some evidence, or is this a Roswell type conspiricy theory with no real basis in fact?

Then if we last another couple hundred years and see we still arent evolving and neither are other species then it will start putting doubts

Evolution doesn't move at the fast pace your book of myths does.

No because you like smash creationist but because you want someone to.Cause inside you know it but you cant prove it.thats the reason for this thread.

I find most creationist need no help being smashed, they are doing a fine job on their own.

Welcome to EvC


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
— Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by ScottyDouglas, posted 05-10-2012 4:21 PM ScottyDouglas has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by ScottyDouglas, posted 05-10-2012 4:48 PM fearandloathing has responded

    
ScottyDouglas
Member (Idle past 706 days)
Posts: 79
Joined: 05-10-2012


Message 116 of 196 (661827)
05-10-2012 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by fearandloathing
05-10-2012 4:42 PM


Interestingly I dont care about your thoughts are comments.Im here to prove nothing.I do not have to.That your topic-prove it or not!Mine isnt.Everything i said was true.I do not care if you believe it or not it is not my job to do your research.Do it on your own.

Also I do not think I replied on your comment, so what wass your point?I was commenting on the original topic what you did not post!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2092564/posts
http://www.davidpratt.info/ape2.htm
http://overmanwarrior.wordpress.com/...ory-of-the-human-race

Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Add blank lines between paragraphs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by fearandloathing, posted 05-10-2012 4:42 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
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fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 117 of 196 (661828)
05-10-2012 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by ScottyDouglas
05-10-2012 4:48 PM


TROLL
If your not up to the job of reasonable debate then your time hear is short. I suggest you crawl back under your bridge.

This is an open discussion and any body can challenge what you say. I was hoping you could support your position, I am apparently sadly wrong.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
— Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by ScottyDouglas, posted 05-10-2012 4:48 PM ScottyDouglas has not yet responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 118 of 196 (661829)
05-10-2012 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by ScottyDouglas
05-10-2012 4:48 PM


Nice fast edit job..., It is not my job to do the reasearch to support your claims, the burden of proof is on you.

"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
— Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by ScottyDouglas, posted 05-10-2012 4:48 PM ScottyDouglas has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by ScottyDouglas, posted 05-10-2012 5:06 PM fearandloathing has responded

    
ScottyDouglas
Member (Idle past 706 days)
Posts: 79
Joined: 05-10-2012


Message 119 of 196 (661836)
05-10-2012 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by fearandloathing
05-10-2012 4:55 PM


I posted it before i got your reply and because you replied i added more and ill more again.
http://medialanephotography.co.uk/ea-giant-human-skeleton/
http://www.stevequayle.com/books/gen6cover.html
http://unexplainedmysteriesoftheworld.com/...iscovered-today
http://forum.davidicke.com/archive/index.php/t-90106.html

Edited by ScottyDouglas, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by fearandloathing, posted 05-10-2012 4:55 PM fearandloathing has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by fearandloathing, posted 05-10-2012 5:19 PM ScottyDouglas has not yet responded

    
fearandloathing
Member (Idle past 519 days)
Posts: 990
From: Burlington, NC, USA
Joined: 02-24-2011


Message 120 of 196 (661840)
05-10-2012 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by ScottyDouglas
05-10-2012 5:06 PM


Post and edits have time stamps....

BTW it is against forum rule to post bare links, you need to at least say a Little something about your link, also notice this edit has a later time then my original post.

ABE... I guess I could have missed your edits, sorry.

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.

Edited by fearandloathing, : spelling

Edited by fearandloathing, : No reason given.


"No sympathy for the devil; keep that in mind. Buy the ticket, take the ride...and if it occasionally gets a little heavier than what you had in mind, well...maybe chalk it off to forced conscious expansion: Tune in, freak out, get beaten."
— Hunter S. Thompson

Ad astra per aspera

Nihil curo de ista tua stulta superstitione.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by ScottyDouglas, posted 05-10-2012 5:06 PM ScottyDouglas has not yet responded

    
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