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Author Topic:   Genesis Creation Stories: Sequence Contradictions?
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 46 of 124 (156667)
11-06-2004 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Davidjay
11-06-2004 1:21 PM


Adam was in charge of naming the animals that were there BEFORE HIM,
I will make him an help meet for him.
No conflict there at all, as long as you don't read what's written there, at least.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Davidjay, posted 11-06-2004 1:21 PM Davidjay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:00 PM Coragyps has replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 124 (156681)
11-06-2004 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Coragyps
11-06-2004 1:36 PM


Coragyps writes:
No conflict there at all, as long as you don't read what's written there, at least.
The conflict is when the proponents of "contradicting accounts" try to reconcile that the author would contradict himself in the very next chapter.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 1:36 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 3:47 PM dpardo has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 48 of 124 (156689)
11-06-2004 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Davidjay
11-06-2004 1:21 PM


Gen 2:18 And the LORD God said, [It is] not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
What's the deal, here? You just can't read clear statements in English or something?
"I will" means he hasn't yet. As in, he hasn't made animals or any help meets until after he made Man.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:56 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 49 of 124 (156692)
11-06-2004 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by dpardo
11-06-2004 3:00 PM


The conflict is when the proponents of "contradicting accounts" try to reconcile that the author would contradict himself in the very next chapter.
Only a fundamentalist minority even pretend that there's one author of the Pentateuch. It's a collection of stories. Folktales.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:00 PM dpardo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:58 PM Coragyps has replied
 Message 56 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-06-2004 4:53 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 124 (156696)
11-06-2004 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by crashfrog
11-06-2004 3:42 PM


Hi Crashfrog!
Crashfrog writes:
What's the deal, here? You just can't read clear statements in English or something?
"I will" means he hasn't yet. As in, he hasn't made animals or any help meets until after he made Man.
The help meet he is referring to is Eve.
And, "yes", she is created after Adam.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 3:42 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 4:09 PM dpardo has not replied
 Message 55 by crashfrog, posted 11-06-2004 4:46 PM dpardo has replied

  
dpardo
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 124 (156698)
11-06-2004 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Coragyps
11-06-2004 3:47 PM


Hi Coragyps!
Coragyps writes:
It's a collection of stories. Folktales.
May I see your evidence for this assertion?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 3:47 PM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 4:13 PM dpardo has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 52 of 124 (156701)
11-06-2004 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by dpardo
11-06-2004 3:56 PM


The help meet he is referring to is Eve.
Read the text:
Gen 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
Eve was found to be an help meet after the sheep, etc. proved unsuitable. Just read the book, dpardo.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:56 PM dpardo has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 11-06-2004 4:23 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 756 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 53 of 124 (156703)
11-06-2004 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by dpardo
11-06-2004 3:58 PM


May I see your evidence for this assertion?
The texts themselves are pretty decent evidence - they read just like the folktales of any other culture you'd care to name. They're equally supported by geological, archaeological, or biological evidence as, say, Maori or Norse creation stories, which is to say, not at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:58 PM dpardo has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 54 of 124 (156705)
11-06-2004 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Coragyps
11-06-2004 4:09 PM


Eve was found to be an help meet after the sheep, etc. proved unsuitable.
Actually the sheep were pretty close and GOD said He could do an update to solve the problems but it might cost an arm and a leg. Adam wanted to see what he could get for just a rib.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 4:09 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1488 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 55 of 124 (156707)
11-06-2004 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by dpardo
11-06-2004 3:56 PM


The help meet he is referring to is Eve.
Ultimately, yes, it is.
But not before God creates all the animals first, and Adam realizes that none of them can be helpmeets for him:
The man gave names to all cattle, and to the birds of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for the man there was not found a helper fit for him.
At the time that God speaks those words ("It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for him."), the helpmeets to which he refers are the animals he's about to create, not Eve.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 3:56 PM dpardo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by dpardo, posted 11-06-2004 10:24 PM crashfrog has replied

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 124 (156713)
11-06-2004 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Coragyps
11-06-2004 3:47 PM


Only a fundamentalist minority even pretend that there's one author of the Pentateuch.
Untrue, and you have no really solid evidence to back up multiple authorship.

"Atheists are just like theists; they find it highly disturbing when you try to weaken their faith." Myself, a couple minutes ago
I think it's cute that Sidelined changed his quote to be in direct opposition of mine. Internal thought
"I believe in one God,
the Father, the Almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only Son of God,
eternally begotten of the Father,
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made,
of one Being with the Father.
Through him all things were made.
For us and for our salvation
he came down from heaven:
by the power of the Holy Spirit
he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary,
and was made man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate;
he suffered death and was buried.
On the third day he rose again
in accordance with the Scriptures;
he ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead,
and his kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son.
With the Father and the Son he is worshiped and glorified.
He has spoken through the Prophets...
I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sins.
I look for the resurrection of the dead,
and the life of the world to come. Amen."
The Nicene Creed
Winner of the LSS's 2004 Longest Signature Award

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Coragyps, posted 11-06-2004 3:47 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by AdminJar, posted 11-06-2004 4:55 PM RustyShackelford has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 57 of 124 (156714)
11-06-2004 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by RustyShackelford
11-06-2004 4:53 PM


Shorten the signature, third warning
Your signature is too long. I've asked you to shorten it to about four lines. Please do so immediately.

How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-06-2004 4:53 PM RustyShackelford has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-06-2004 4:59 PM AdminJar has replied

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Member


Message 58 of 124 (156715)
11-06-2004 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by AdminJar
11-06-2004 4:55 PM


Re: Shorten the signature, third warning
I don't recall there being anything in the registration agreemen about signature length..........besides, I think this is less about the length of my signature and more about what my signature says......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by AdminJar, posted 11-06-2004 4:55 PM AdminJar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by AdminJar, posted 11-06-2004 5:03 PM RustyShackelford has replied

  
AdminJar
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 124 (156716)
11-06-2004 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by RustyShackelford
11-06-2004 4:59 PM


Re: Shorten the signature, third warning
Thank you.

How pierceful grows the hazy yon! How myrtle petaled thou! For spring hath sprung the cyclotron How high browse thou, brown cow? -- Churchy LaFemme, 1950

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-06-2004 4:59 PM RustyShackelford has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by RustyShackelford, posted 11-06-2004 5:27 PM AdminJar has not replied

  
RustyShackelford 
Inactive Member


Message 60 of 124 (156732)
11-06-2004 5:27 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by AdminJar
11-06-2004 5:03 PM


Re: Shorten the signature, third warning
Oh, no, I'm gonna keep posting my signature like it is, as long as there's nothing against it in the rules.......because if there's nothing against it in the rules, there's not a damn thing you can do to stop me, correct? Can't put me in boot camp for NOT breaking the rules, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by AdminJar, posted 11-06-2004 5:03 PM AdminJar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by AdminAsgara, posted 11-06-2004 5:33 PM RustyShackelford has replied

  
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