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Author Topic:   HOLOGRAPHIC UNIVERSE?
aristarchus
Member (Idle past 308 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 01-11-2005


Message 1 of 9 (491768)
12-20-2008 8:54 PM


I just finished reading Leonard Susskind's book,"The Black Hole War". While I had heard of the idea of the universe being a holographic image, I had never before thought it was necessary to take it seriously enough to try to understand it. This book forced me to think about the concept and now I'm really confused.
My understanding, which I'm certain is wrong, is that there is a two-dimensional pixelated boundary that contains one pixel per square planck length that projects a three dimensional something that is our reality.
The book didn't make it clear where these boundaries are. Are they contained in each unit of Plank Space? Or is it the walls of the room I'm in, or the boundary of the Universe? And if the projections do come from the edge of the Universe, doesn't that mean I'm already dead?
The other immediate question is "If our reality is a projection, what gives it substance?"
There are a lot of other questions I have, but this is a good starting point.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by cavediver, posted 12-21-2008 4:44 AM aristarchus has replied
 Message 4 by Agobot, posted 12-21-2008 5:14 AM aristarchus has not replied
 Message 8 by traderdrew, posted 12-09-2009 1:12 PM aristarchus has replied

  
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 9 (491778)
12-21-2008 1:35 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 3643 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 3 of 9 (491784)
12-21-2008 4:44 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by aristarchus
12-20-2008 8:54 PM


My understanding, which I'm certain is wrong, is that there is a two-dimensional pixelated boundary that contains one pixel per square planck length that projects a three dimensional something that is our reality.
Too busy a day to go into this properly, but...
It's not that *there is* such a boundary, it is that there *could be*, and it could contain all of the information necessary to decribe our Universe. It is more a mathematical identity than a definite description of reality. I haven't read Lenny's book, but I guess the typical process of 'popularisation' has made it a bit overblown. And the fact that I remember helping educate Lenny in his black hole physics, and he gets the book where-as I have to explain it on some website doesn't make me in the slightest bit envious... oh no.
Anyway, this is not that surprising for string theorists as we are already used to the idea of the entire 4d (10d) Universe being a projection from the the two-dimensional world-sheet of the strings. In the late nineties, a potential mathematical physics identity was discovered called AdS/CFT correspondance which also hinted at the Holographic Principle. If you are familiar with undergrad phsyics/maths, then even good old Gauss' Theorem (divergence theorem) is a hint at this.
The other immediate question is "If our reality is a projection, what gives it substance?"
Our reality is almosr certainly a projection, whether it comes from two dimensional surfaces, eleven dimensional M-theory, or 'simply' from our everyday four dimensional fields. I have mentioned this a few times recently, but even our idea of distance is probably just a projection of different numbers. A rock in your garden and a rock on the Moon are only different distances from you, because the 'distance numbers' associated between you and the garden rock, and you and the Moon rock are very different. Just like the numbers describing the temperatures inside your freezer and inside your cooker are very different.
What gives it substance? Our brains
And if the projections do come from the edge of the Universe, doesn't that mean I'm already dead?
Are you asking because of the finiteness of c, or is this something to do with actually being a projection?
If the former, the projection isn't actually 'projected' - there isn't a boundary AND an interior, there is only the boundary. And all the rules of causality are played out in the boundary.
Edited by cavediver, : Spelling correction - it was 'bit' mis-spelled 'it' - spooky, huh?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by aristarchus, posted 12-20-2008 8:54 PM aristarchus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by aristarchus, posted 12-21-2008 6:06 AM cavediver has not replied

  
Agobot
Member (Idle past 5530 days)
Posts: 786
Joined: 12-16-2007


Message 4 of 9 (491787)
12-21-2008 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by aristarchus
12-20-2008 8:54 PM


aristarchus writes:
I just finished reading Leonard Susskind's book,"The Black Hole War". While I had heard of the idea of the universe being a holographic image, I had never before thought it was necessary to take it seriously enough to try to understand it. This book forced me to think about the concept and now I'm really confused.
My understanding, which I'm certain is wrong, is that there is a two-dimensional pixelated boundary that contains one pixel per square planck length that projects a three dimensional something that is our reality.
The book didn't make it clear where these boundaries are. Are they contained in each unit of Plank Space? Or is it the walls of the room I'm in, or the boundary of the Universe? And if the projections do come from the edge of the Universe, doesn't that mean I'm already dead?
The other immediate question is "If our reality is a projection, what gives it substance?"
There are a lot of other questions I have, but this is a good starting point.
Welcome to the land of the awaken! Not surprisingly, the rest of your journey will be taking you innwards.
Edited by Agobot, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by aristarchus, posted 12-20-2008 8:54 PM aristarchus has not replied

  
aristarchus
Member (Idle past 308 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 01-11-2005


Message 5 of 9 (491788)
12-21-2008 6:06 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by cavediver
12-21-2008 4:44 AM


Are you asking because of the finiteness of c, or is this something to do with actually being a projection?
It's the speed of light issue.
I appreciate your response. After I've had time to read it more closely, hopefully I'll have a coherent response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by cavediver, posted 12-21-2008 4:44 AM cavediver has not replied

  
WaveDancer
Member (Idle past 5404 days)
Posts: 37
From: NSW Australia
Joined: 09-14-2008


Message 6 of 9 (495499)
01-23-2009 3:39 AM


Hey after reading your post about the holographic universe it reminded me of an article I read a week or two back. Some of you might find this interesting.
http://www.physnews.com/showlink.php?id=7796

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by ichatfilipina, posted 03-09-2009 9:39 AM WaveDancer has not replied

  
ichatfilipina 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5498 days)
Posts: 4
Joined: 03-09-2009


Message 7 of 9 (501994)
03-09-2009 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by WaveDancer
01-23-2009 3:39 AM


the parallel of black hole is located the West and East. Scientist didn't discovered a new black hole is centered to West Area. When you near in West Black Hole, you will be pulled very fast and deliver to another dimension or universe. Outer space is infinite dimension
Edited by ichatfilipina, : continue
Edited by Admin, : No reason given.

iChatFilipina

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by WaveDancer, posted 01-23-2009 3:39 AM WaveDancer has not replied

  
traderdrew
Member (Idle past 5154 days)
Posts: 379
From: Palm Beach, Florida
Joined: 04-27-2009


Message 8 of 9 (538734)
12-09-2009 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by aristarchus
12-20-2008 8:54 PM


"If our reality is a projection, what gives it substance?"
Perhaps what appears to be solid matter (which is actually a form of concentrated fields of energy) emits or has properties where matter cannot move through each other. Hence it gives the appearance of solidity.
What do you think?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by aristarchus, posted 12-20-2008 8:54 PM aristarchus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by aristarchus, posted 12-09-2009 7:56 PM traderdrew has not replied

  
aristarchus
Member (Idle past 308 days)
Posts: 31
Joined: 01-11-2005


Message 9 of 9 (538767)
12-09-2009 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by traderdrew
12-09-2009 1:12 PM


When I asked that question I was thinking of how holograms would pass through each other. I was probably taking the word too literally. Cavediver pointed out to me that reality existed on the boundaries, which answered that part of the question for me.
And unless I'm misunderstanding the rest of your post, I think the property of an energy field that would prevent matter from moving through each other is the electromagnetic repulsion of like charges.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by traderdrew, posted 12-09-2009 1:12 PM traderdrew has not replied

  
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