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Author | Topic: Hypocrisy Among American Fundamentalists | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
Fundamentalist are humans and can make as big of mistakes as anyone else. But when it comes to electing officials to lead our government I would rather have a born again fundamental Christian leading our country... So I look at what a man says and what he has done and try to decide if that person is the best for the country, state, or county. In other words who will represent me.
The discussion wasn't about voting for people who preach the gospel, it was specific to pastors politicking. I said that I thought it was inappropriate. You are free to disagree with that. I'm not suggesting that it should be outlawed but as a general rule of thumb it would be nice if they refrained from it. "Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh, I understand now. Yeah, that's clearly a tax dodge and something that should be explicitly forbidden. According to kbertsche it's not a tax dodge. You should read his Message 100 abe: P.S. In case you won't see them, I removed the offending personal remarks in the previous posts to you. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat, you are just trying to palm the pea, con the rubes, move the goal posts.
Is something I make (other than a child) living? Is what I write living?
Phat writes: Lets take a recent Bible Study i had-how to differentiate the will of God from the plan of God. Okay, so you have studied the subject. How do you test to see if something is the will of God? How do you test to determine if something is the Plan of God? What are the tests? Do any of the tests require some prior conditions of YOUR personal beliefs? Can the tests be done with consistent results whether the tester is a believer or non-believer? Compare what you describe to what scientists do. It is irrelevant what the tester believes the answer should be, the results are what the testing device shows. The testing device itself is tested before and after the test to remove any artifacts that are the result of the device itself. And there are outside independent folk that are also testing and their results must match the earlier results or there is a full stop until the discrepancies are explained and understood. Edited by Admin, : Fix typo in 2nd sentence: "I" => "Is"Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I thought I remembered that some churches had lost their tax-exempt status, I am aware of churches that forgo tax exempt status for this reason, and I have also been in churches where the pastor spoke of the need to follow the rules.
Obviously the line for Super PACs has been drawn in the wrong place. I don't think fixing that is going to happen. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I had real trouble finding anyone that I would align with. Perhaps Americans have the same problem. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined:
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People use the phrase "gospel" colloquially to mean "the bible," which is what I said. You're really splitting hairs here. No, I've got to agree with Faith and ICANT here. The gospel is the good news about Jesus Christ. And this is not merely technically accurate, but in all my experience it is the colloquial usage too. The book of Jeremiah, for example, is not "the gospel", and an Orthodox Jew expounding on that book would not be preaching the gospel.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
According to kbertsche it's not a tax dodge. You should read his Message 100 I think his message addressed only the issue with the purchaser's taxes. If you make a donation, you are required to deduct the value of the book. What was left undiscussed is the impact on the taxes for the person offering the book. Can that person now escape paying taxes on the revenue from accepting a donation of the book, when they would have had to pay taxes on a sale of the book? I don't think kbertsche addressed the issue. It turns out that the answer is extremely complicated requiring a many factored legal analysis, but a church selling a religious book may not have to pay taxes either way. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I thought I remembered that some churches had lost their tax-exempt status, but a quick search didn't find any, so I asked. A quick search turns up about lots of articles about churches fearing losing their tax exempt status due to opposition to gay marriage, something which has not happened. However I did find an article discussing a federal appellate court upholding a decision by the IRS to pull the status of a church that spent lots of money on ads in an attempt to make sure Bill Clinton was not elected. Appeals Court Says IRS Was Right to Strip Church’s Tax Exemption
quote: Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: Sounds like the words of an honest agnostic to me. How do you test to see if something is the will of God? How do you test to determine if something is the Plan of God? What are the tests? Do any of the tests require some prior conditions of YOUR personal beliefs? Can the tests be done with consistent results whether the tester is a believer or non-believer? Compare what you describe to what scientists do. It is irrelevant what the tester believes the answer should be, the results are what the testing device shows. The testing device itself is tested before and after the test to remove any artifacts that are the result of the device itself. And there are outside independent folk that are also testing and their results must match the earlier results or there is a full stop until the discrepancies are explained and understood.When we read Tom Sawyer, we expect the words of Mark Twain to come through the characters. If we simply said that many unknown folks wrote Tom Sawyer, would the stories IMPACT be any less? Heck, what if computers "wrote" it? How would we test the truthfulness of the words,phrases and stories against "reality"? Is it possible for a computer to be truthful? Is it possible for a computer to lie? Is it possible for a computer to have an ulterior motive? Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
GDR writes: I wonder if our Creator cares who we vote for or how we decide? Frankly in the US right now I have no idea who I would support. I obviously don't vote. If I were to be voting in the US I would normally favour the Republicans but there are many times I have favoured the democratic candidate.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Yet all your post does is avoid answering the question (just as in the post I was replying to). Phat, you are just trying to palm the pea, con the rubes, move the goal posts.
The post you quote was a reply to one of your posts where you claimed:
quote: You took the class. What were the answers? How do you test to see if something is the will of God? How do you test to determine if something is the Plan of God? What are the tests? Do any of the tests require some prior conditions of YOUR personal beliefs? Can the tests be done with consistent results whether the tester is a believer or non-believer?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5949 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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When we read Tom Sawyer, we expect the words of Mark Twain to come through the characters. If we simply said that many unknown folks wrote Tom Sawyer, would the stories IMPACT be any less? Granted, your "argument" is pure sophistry (to elevate it far higher than it deserves). Nobody would attribute "many unknown folks" to a work whose author is well known. It is when the authors of a work are much less well known that any questions arise. I am far too accustomed to creationists lying through their teeth; I would hope that you are not similarly inclined. Granted, I read far more of Mark Twain's other works, such as Roughing It, The Innocents Abroad, and Letters from the Earth. I believe that it was in Huckleberry Finn that his most racist and pro-slavery statements were made. Was that Mark Twain "coming through the characters" to endorse racism and slavery? Or was he presenting a clear picture of someone steeped in racism and slavery expressing how he thought so that we "normals" could see it for the abomination that it actually is? Answer Jar's question.
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
jar writes: You always say this, and yet I honestly am unconscious of any motivation to fool anybody. What I think is happening is our old source vs content argument that you attempted to show me some years back. I was merely attempting to show that source matters and that human beings are capable of truthful content if inspired by the right source. Also that hypothetically a computer can neither be inspired nor uninspired. I suppose you could argue that facts are facts and reality is reality and if I move the goalposts in order to win that one, it is intellectually dishonest. You know of my belief in a necessary source to inspire and/or illuminate content. Phat, you are just trying to palm the pea, con the rubes, move the goal posts. Im still trying to work through this philosophy.ABe: Perhaps you would argue that even if Source was tales told around a campfire, Content can still be important and valid. Am I close? Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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Phat Member Posts: 18338 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.0 |
DWise1 writes: Now you have me pulling out the Dictionary again to see what sophistry is! And what does my argument deserve? In your eyes, what precisely is my argument? I need some help here Granted, your "argument" is pure sophistry (to elevate it far higher than it deserves). ABe: Sophistry-the use of fallacious arguments, especially with the intention of deceiving. My argument may certainly be fallacious...but who decides? Also I have no intention of deceiving anyone.a fallacious argument. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain
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jar Member (Idle past 421 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: ABe: Perhaps you would argue that even if Source was tales told around a campfire, Content can still be important and valid. Am I close? My argument is that every source can be wrong, can lie, can be mistaken, can mislead, can word replies to make them intentionally ambiguous. It is never smart to simply believe what you are told regardless of the source. And I agree that it is very likely you do not do it on purpose but what happens is instead of answering questions you change the subject. Look at the post in question. Here is is entirely:
quote: I was asking you to tell us what you learned in the class you claimed to have just taken. What were the techniques they taught you to use to discriminate between the will of God and the plan of God?Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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