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Author Topic:   The Awesome Republican Primary Thread
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3355
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1306 of 1322 (711882)
11-23-2013 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1305 by zombie ringo
11-23-2013 11:31 AM


Re: Cover me, Koch Inc., I'm gonna take that hill.
ringo writes:

To recycle a joke from another thread, that's only because canines don't live to voting age.

My greatly missed chocolate point Siamese cat, Noel Persephone, died a few years ago at the age of 23.

If she could have voted, she'd have voted for Death--she was elegant and refined, but a killer.

I'm neither elegant nor refined, but we understood each other perfectly.

Dogs, dears though they are, lack the necessary rigor: if they could vote, they'd simply vote for dinner.

The last thing we need is another party of biscuits and balls.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1305 by zombie ringo, posted 11-23-2013 11:31 AM zombie ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1310 by zombie ringo, posted 11-24-2013 1:12 PM Omnivorous has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12842
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 1307 of 1322 (711883)
11-23-2013 6:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1301 by AZPaul3
11-22-2013 8:17 PM


Re: Cover me, Koch Inc., I'm gonna take that hill.
Well, actually, officially, legally it is.

Then why is persuasion legal but bribery illegal?

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1301 by AZPaul3, posted 11-22-2013 8:17 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1309 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2013 9:57 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 2357
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


(3)
Message 1308 of 1322 (711890)
11-23-2013 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1304 by Omnivorous
11-23-2013 10:29 AM


To Writ or Not to Writ
Calm down, Omni. You do not know me, my interests or my philosophy. Do not go painting me with that conservative boogie-man brush.

You do not like this court's rulings so you hate the court and any defense of it. I don't know how far back you go. If you were conscious at the time maybe the Warren court was more to your liking. I certainly did, but that's another story.

[aside]

You think this court leans to conservative? In the long history of the court this Roberts Court is a bit left of center. Take a look at the Fuller, White and Taft courts. Not just conservative but practically do-nothing courts as well.

[/aside]

I am a student of the court. I am a fan of the court. Not one of those fair weather fans whose love/hate runs with the tide. I have a great deal of respect for the uniqueness of the SCOTUS no matter which way the political pendulum happens to be swinging. In most of the rest of the world those with independent courts achieve this by act of parliament. SCOTUS is unique in that it is a co-equal branch not dependent on any other organ of government for its independence.

For all of its history, if not in quite all of its decisions, SCOTUS has been the guarantor of the rule of law in this country.

What I watch for in the court is its judicial temperament in that I watch if it holds to the rule of law and not to the emotion of the society at the time.

Many people here detest the Citizens United opinion, including you, because it did not fit your conception of the way this society should do something. What Justice Kennedy wrote was a clear chain from constitution to opinion without any kinks or detours. Compare to what Justice Stevens wrote which was not a legal chain but an emotional chain addressing the dislike and distrust of corporations, the possible corrupting influence of corporate money and the general public's common sense view that such should not continue.

I agree with his assessment of corporations and their corrupting influence in politics. But he steps well outside the rule of law in appealing to public emotion via common sense while ignoring both the explicit wording of the First Amendment and the intent of the founding principles that political speech not be abridged, period.

I understand it is not very comforting to a lot of people but we are a nation ruled by law not by emotion.

As long as there is a grounding in law and a clear path from there into a majority opinion, whether I personally agree with the opinion or not, the rule of law, which to me is the most important thing that will keep this society free for the long haul, has been served.

When I see the emotional response of those who hate an opinion and so hate the court without looking to see if the opinion has any grounding in law I react. If the decision shows a clear trail from constitution to opinion, I will defend the court whether I agree or disagree. If it does not then I will pound my feet, stomp my fists and let the bile flow just as you do now.

If Justice Stevens' opinion had prevailed I would howl like a banshee, not because of any love for corporations, but because he based his decision on the emotion of the moment instead of the law of the land.

I know. People will not see the reasoning but just the outcome and so will count me among the heathens and the lepers.

It is so ordered.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1304 by Omnivorous, posted 11-23-2013 10:29 AM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1311 by Omnivorous, posted 11-26-2013 5:19 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 2357
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 1309 of 1322 (711891)
11-23-2013 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 1307 by Dr Adequate
11-23-2013 6:34 PM


Re: Cover me, Koch Inc., I'm gonna take that hill.
Then why is persuasion legal but bribery illegal?

Oh come on, Doc. You're a smart guy. A little thought and you could figure it out.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1307 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-23-2013 6:34 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
zombie ringo
Member
Posts: 9707
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1310 of 1322 (711928)
11-24-2013 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1306 by Omnivorous
11-23-2013 6:17 PM


Re: Cover me, Koch Inc., I'm gonna take that hill.
Omnivorous writes:

Dogs, dears though they are, lack the necessary rigor: if they could vote, they'd simply vote for dinner.

The last thing we need is another party of biscuits and balls.


I dunno. It might be an improvement.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1306 by Omnivorous, posted 11-23-2013 6:17 PM Omnivorous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1312 by Omnivorous, posted 11-26-2013 5:22 PM zombie ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3355
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1311 of 1322 (712069)
11-26-2013 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1308 by AZPaul3
11-23-2013 9:56 PM


Re: To Writ or Not to Writ
AZPaul3 writes:

Calm down, Omni. You do not know me, my interests or my philosophy. Do not go painting me with that conservative boogie-man brush.

Calm I am and was. Could you tell me what portion of my post painted you with a "conservative boogie-man brush" or was in some way histrionic?

You do not like this court's rulings so you hate the court and any defense of it.

Your caution against assumptions would have carried more weight if you had not immediately after leapt heroically to that one and the others about those here who disagree with you.

I don't hate this court. It is my high esteem for the SCOTUS as an institution that fuels my dismay at some of the Roberts' court decisions. Nor do I hate any defense of this court--just yours, at the moment, because you have defended it with nothing but bare assertions, and now with a lecture you stooped to deliver.

There are eloquent, closely reasoned critiques of this decision (and this court), both popular and scholarly. Your dismissal of those critiques as "emotional" merely patronizes all who disagree with you.

You declared the contrast between Stevens' reasoning ("emotional chain") and Kennedy's ("clear...without kinks or detours") but did none of the work required to document your take. I understand--my posts on this topic haven't done that, either. That's a lot of work, and while I've read both opinions, I don't want to do that much work here.

Just don't think that you've demonstrated anything other than an outline of your opinion and your disdain for mine.

But trust me on one thing: I've read your posts, mostly with pleasure, for seven years. I never took you for a conservative boogie-man before, and I don't in this instance.

Have a lovely holiday, AZPaul.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1308 by AZPaul3, posted 11-23-2013 9:56 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1313 by AZPaul3, posted 11-26-2013 7:30 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

    
Omnivorous
Member
Posts: 3355
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 1312 of 1322 (712070)
11-26-2013 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1310 by zombie ringo
11-24-2013 1:12 PM


Re: Cover me, Koch Inc., I'm gonna take that hill.
ringo writes:

Omnivorous writes:

Dogs, dears though they are, lack the necessary rigor: if they could vote, they'd simply vote for dinner.
The last thing we need is another party of biscuits and balls.

I dunno. It might be an improvement.

Upon reflection, I have to agree.


"If you can keep your head while those around you are losing theirs, you can collect a lot of heads."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1310 by zombie ringo, posted 11-24-2013 1:12 PM zombie ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 2357
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006


Message 1313 of 1322 (712074)
11-26-2013 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 1311 by Omnivorous
11-26-2013 5:19 PM


Re: To Writ or Not to Writ
Could you tell me what portion of my post painted you with a "conservative boogie-man brush" or was in some way histrionic?

Histrionic? I didn't think so at the time.

You declared the contrast between Stevens' reasoning ("emotional chain") and Kennedy's ("clear...without kinks or detours") but did none of the work required to document your take

I did not link to the case opinions since they certainly are easily available. I didn't feel a whole lot of work was necessary for the same reason. I suppose a few quotes from each would have been more appropriate.

Just don't think that you've demonstrated anything other than an outline of your opinion and your disdain for mine.

Not disdain, no. I don't do disdain. Usually.

You say you have a high esteem for the SCOTUS but are dismayed at some of the Roberts' court decisions. No issue here.

Have a lovely holiday, AZPaul.

And you Omni.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1311 by Omnivorous, posted 11-26-2013 5:19 PM Omnivorous has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15960
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1314 of 1322 (717932)
02-03-2014 7:53 AM


Chris Cristie
So we come to an off election year ... with people pseudocampaigning for 2016 while watching what happens in the house and senate.

Governor Chris Cristie, the almost designated GOP candidate goes down in flames with corruption swirling around him.

Anybody watching?

  1. Bridgegate lane closure for spite
  2. Strong arming for friends development in exchange for Sandy funds for Hoboken ...
  3. Former Hunterdon County prosecutor Bennett Barlyn says the reason he was fired by the Christie administration was for pursuing a corruption case against Christie allies.
  4. $6 million for Belleville Old Folks Complex --- with Sandy funds but Belleville had minor damage -- more than Hoboken.
  5. A $4.8 million apartment complex in unaffected inland suburb New Brunswick -- more than Hoboken.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

Replies to this message:
 Message 1315 by 1.61803, posted 02-03-2014 10:10 AM RAZD has responded
 Message 1317 by Diomedes, posted 02-03-2014 10:53 AM RAZD has responded
 Message 1321 by nwr, posted 02-03-2014 1:09 PM RAZD has responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2333
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1315 of 1322 (717947)
02-03-2014 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1314 by RAZD
02-03-2014 7:53 AM


Re: Chris Cristie
RAZD writes:

Anybody watching?


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1314 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2014 7:53 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1316 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2014 10:52 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15960
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1316 of 1322 (717954)
02-03-2014 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 1315 by 1.61803
02-03-2014 10:10 AM


Re: Chris Cristie
or

Looks like 2016 will be the usual parade of clowns ...

... and it looks like the cover-up is going to be what gets him.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1315 by 1.61803, posted 02-03-2014 10:10 AM 1.61803 has acknowledged this reply

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 302
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1317 of 1322 (717955)
02-03-2014 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1314 by RAZD
02-03-2014 7:53 AM


What about this meathead?
Anyone notice this lunatic Congressman threatening a reporter?

And yes, he is a Republican.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1314 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2014 7:53 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1318 by 1.61803, posted 02-03-2014 11:19 AM Diomedes has not yet responded
 Message 1319 by RAZD, posted 02-03-2014 11:31 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
1.61803
Member
Posts: 2333
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 1318 of 1322 (717960)
02-03-2014 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 1317 by Diomedes
02-03-2014 10:53 AM


Re: What about this meathead?
" I'll break you in half like a boy."

YIIIIIKES


"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1317 by Diomedes, posted 02-03-2014 10:53 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1320 by frako, posted 02-03-2014 12:35 PM 1.61803 has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 15960
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 1319 of 1322 (717963)
02-03-2014 11:31 AM
Reply to: Message 1317 by Diomedes
02-03-2014 10:53 AM


Re: What about this meathead?
and a supporter of CCristie ...

One bully likes another eh?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1317 by Diomedes, posted 02-03-2014 10:53 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2402
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 1320 of 1322 (717973)
02-03-2014 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1318 by 1.61803
02-03-2014 11:19 AM


Re: What about this meathead?
" I'll break you in half like a boy."
YIIIIIKES

To me that sounds like a weird gay porno line where a priest mounts a dude and yells il brake you in half like a boy LOL


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1318 by 1.61803, posted 02-03-2014 11:19 AM 1.61803 has not yet responded

    
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