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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Minnemooseus Member Posts: 3945 From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior) Joined: Member Rating: 10.0
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And the 2nd amendment doesn't "allow" for anything. It just says to not infringe on the Peoples' right to have guns. Other laws are what disallow people from having grenade launchers. Google "destructive device". The entire 2nd Amendment:
quote: "Arms", not "guns". And "arms" is not defined to mean guns.
Cat Sci, in message 3106, writes: Arms were meant to be a firearm that a single individual could use. I find that definition, although it's not in the Constitution, to be acceptable. But I don't see that that definition excludes such things as rocket powered grenade launchers. What do you think is the limit of the type of "arms" a citizen is Constitutionally allowed to "keep and bear"?
Google "destructive device". Destructive device:
quote: quote: 50 caliber seems pretty arbitrary. Why not limit it to 22 caliber? What do YOU think is the limit of the type of "arms" a citizen is Constitutionally allowed to "keep and bear"? Moose Edited by Minnemooseus, : The shame - Screwed up a quote box.Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment. "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham "The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith "Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien "I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
50 caliber seems pretty arbitrary. Why not limit it to 22 caliber? What do YOU think is the limit of the type of "arms" a citizen is Constitutionally allowed to "keep and bear"? Arbitrary indeed when a musket has a large bore but the damage potential is close to a 22 and doesn't have an option for automatic/rapid fire. So one could set an arbitrary limit to the damage potential of a musket in the time it takes to reload a musket. by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
"Arms", not "guns". And "arms" is not defined to mean guns. It means weapons. Guns are weapons. And its a right that a person has. They're talking about personal weapons. It stems back to the English Bill of Rights:
quote: I find that definition, although it's not in the Constitution, to be acceptable. But I don't see that that definition excludes such things as rocket powered grenade launchers. It doesn't. Its not exclusionary at all.
What do you think is the limit of the type of "arms" a citizen is Constitutionally allowed to "keep and bear"? None. The type of arms a citizen is allowed to keep and bear is not limited by the Constitution. The Constitution doesn't even "allow" the citizens to have arms in the first place. It identifies the existence of the right, and then says to not infringe it.
50 caliber seems pretty arbitrary. Why not limit it to 22 caliber? Well for one, some states have wildlife that can survive a 22.
What do YOU think is the limit of the type of "arms" a citizen is Constitutionally allowed to "keep and bear"? Honestly, the question is just nonsensical. The Constitution doesn't allow citizens to bear arms and it place no limits it the right. You should be asking the other way: what's the limitation on civilian arms that becomes unconstitutional... That really isn't clear now, is it? My opinion is that the metric for the limitation of civilian arms should be the police. The police are civilians too. Anything they are allowed to have, I should be allowed to have. And if you want to limit me from having it, then you should limit the police from having it as well. That should create a decent balance of interest.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
My opinion is that the metric for the limitation of civilian arms should be the police. The police are civilians too. Anything they are allowed to have, I should be allowed to have. And if you want to limit me from having it, then you should limit the police from having it as well. That should create a decent balance of interest. Curiously I can work with that. I would exclude certain special forces that would respond to drug war and SWAT teams, and I would like those to be restricted from general use. The average police officer has a handgun. There may be a shotgun in the trunk (ie not readily accessible). by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
Dillinger needed Tommy guns because the police had them, so he stole them from the police. My opinion is that the metric for the limitation of civilian arms should be the police. What about body armour? It's not an "arm", technically, but it would be handy to protect me from the police.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
What about body armour? It's not an "arm", technically, but it would be handy to protect me from the police. True. However it would be a stretch to make the case that there is some constitutional protection that prevents states from regulating the sale and wearing of body armor. Does not stop some people from trying to make that argument. No US state prevents wearing of body armor by non-felons. There are some restrictions on its use that apply to everyone. Je Suis Charlie Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
Just to be clear: Is it once-a-felon-always-a-felon? Or can you work your way up to ex-felon? If you serve your sentence for a felony, can you then wear body armour to protect you from other ex-felons?
No US state prevents wearing of body armor by non-felons.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
What about body armour? It's not an "arm", technically, but it would be handy to protect me from the police. What about it? I've never thought about it. Is it not commercially available?
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Straggler Member (Idle past 92 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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NN writes: No US state prevents wearing of body armor by non-felons. In response to recent massacres I suggest that, rather than limit gun use any further, all teachers and school children should be required to attend school in full body armour.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
Well, in Canada it would have about as much market as giraffe shoes.
Is it not commercially available?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
You guys probably don't sell a lot of beach towels either...
I'm not sure I'm getting the point.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
In response to recent massacres I suggest that, rather than limit gun use any further, all teachers and school children should be required to attend school in full body armour. There has been a market response: bulletproof backpacks - Search Not sure which it protects more, the child or the peace of mind of the parent ... by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Well, in Canada it would have about as much market as giraffe shoes. Unless it were incorporated into a snowmobile suit, eh? by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Cat's Eye writes:
We have beaches. You guys probably don't sell a lot of beach towels either... But the idea that there would be a demand for handguns has always been amusing to me. If they were free in CrackerJacks, a few people would have them. Otherwise, what for?
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9197 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.2 |
You guys have lots of beautiful beaches. I have found a number of them on secluded lakes in northern Ontario. Also a few on Lake Superior.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts "God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
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