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Author Topic:   So-Called "Persecution Against Christians":
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 46 of 115 (796402)
12-29-2016 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
12-29-2016 2:37 PM


quote:
Funny how we're the bullies when it's the law forcing gay marriage on us against our Biblical conscience that is the bully, putting us in the position of refusing specific services to gay weddings
Since we have seen that it is not Biblical and seems rather more to do with bigotry than conscience it hardly seems to be a problem for Christians.
quote:
Now we can be sued and driven out of business for holding a viewpoint that goes back to Eden and was shared by all cultures until very recenTry
You can't be sued for holding a viewpoint, as you certainly should know by now. Only for what you do - or refuse to do. So why are you claiming otherwise ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 2:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 4:35 PM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 47 of 115 (796406)
12-29-2016 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by PaulK
12-29-2016 3:10 PM


You don't get to define what's biblical. We know what's biblical, and our rejection of gay marriage is determined by the Bible. So shoot us. You're working up to that anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by PaulK, posted 12-29-2016 3:10 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 12-29-2016 4:47 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 49 by PaulK, posted 12-29-2016 5:46 PM Faith has replied
 Message 56 by Porosity, posted 12-29-2016 8:06 PM Faith has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(2)
Message 48 of 115 (796410)
12-29-2016 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
12-29-2016 4:35 PM


You don't get to define what's biblical. We know what's biblical, and our acceptance of gay marriage is determined by the Bible and also common courtesy and what Jesus commanded us to do. So shoot us. You're working up to that anyway.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 4:35 PM Faith has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 49 of 115 (796414)
12-29-2016 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
12-29-2016 4:35 PM


quote:
You don't get to define what's biblical. We know what's biblical, and our rejection of gay marriage is determined by the Bible.
As we have seen, that is not true. If you obeyed the Bible you would follow the law and have no problem at all.
quote:
So shoot us. You're working up to that anyway.
That is one of the lies that "Christians" will use to justify their tyranny. I shall restrict myself to pointing out your evil. Which is exactly why you hate me,and wish to see me beaten or worse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 4:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 6:17 PM PaulK has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 50 of 115 (796415)
12-29-2016 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by PaulK
12-29-2016 5:46 PM


What you think you "have seen" is what is not true. Marriage is clearly defined in the Bible as a man and a woman, and homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin, not a legitimate "lifestyle." You are not allowed to define another person's reading of the Bible or another's conscience, sorry. In any case you will find that the more Christian businesses are challenged to do something special or personal that validates gay marriage the more Christians will have to refuse and be punished for it. Your thinking they are wrong carries no more weight than the Catholics thinking the Protestants wrong who refused to accept papal law and chose torture and death instead. Sorry. Of course calling us evil will justify whatever your group want to do to us too, just as it justified the RCC. And how childish of you to pretend I want to harm you in any way. I'm called to die for my beliefs and bless my enemies.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by PaulK, posted 12-29-2016 5:46 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Coragyps, posted 12-29-2016 7:18 PM Faith has replied
 Message 57 by Modulous, posted 12-29-2016 8:33 PM Faith has replied
 Message 61 by PaulK, posted 12-30-2016 1:07 AM Faith has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(2)
Message 51 of 115 (796416)
12-29-2016 7:18 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
12-29-2016 6:17 PM


Faith, how many wives did Solomon have? Abraham? Jacob?
Don't tell me about Biblical definitions of marriage until you get that definition straight.

"The Christian church, in its attitude toward science, shows the mind of a more or less enlightened man of the Thirteenth Century. It no longer believes that the earth is flat, but it is still convinced that prayer can cure after medicine fails." H L Mencken

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 6:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 7:20 PM Coragyps has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 52 of 115 (796417)
12-29-2016 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Coragyps
12-29-2016 7:18 PM


They were sinners. What's your problem?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Coragyps, posted 12-29-2016 7:18 PM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 7:41 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 70 by ringo, posted 12-30-2016 10:52 AM Faith has not replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 53 of 115 (796419)
12-29-2016 7:41 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Faith
12-29-2016 7:20 PM


Besides, that's irrelevant, since what I've been saying is that it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, there are Christians, me among them, who understand the Bible to forbid gay marriage, and if we are put in a position requiring us to do something personally that legitimizes it we will refuse and be prosecuted by the law, which is a form of persecution, and how that makes us the bully is beyond me. Everything else is irrelevant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 7:20 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Modulous, posted 12-29-2016 7:50 PM Faith has replied
 Message 55 by jar, posted 12-29-2016 8:01 PM Faith has not replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 54 of 115 (796420)
12-29-2016 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
12-29-2016 7:41 PM


and if we are put in a position requiring us to do something personally that legitimizes it we will refuse and be prosecuted by the law
Professionally, not personally.
how that makes us the bully is beyond me. Everything else is irrelevant.
Its the bit where you enjoy the benefits of operating a public business but deliberately exclude members of a group that is regularly attacked and ostracized for doing nothing harmful to you and hope that a community of like minded people will support you in your tactics of exclusion which increases the probability of people engaging in self harm or suicide.
That bit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 7:41 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Faith, posted 12-30-2016 12:37 AM Modulous has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(3)
Message 55 of 115 (796421)
12-29-2016 8:01 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Faith
12-29-2016 7:41 PM


Faith writes:
Besides, that's irrelevant, since what I've been saying is that it doesn't matter what anybody else thinks, there are Christians, me among them, who understand the Bible to forbid gay marriage, and if we are put in a position requiring us to do something personally that legitimizes it we will refuse and be prosecuted by the law, which is a form of persecution, and how that makes us the bully is beyond me.
Sorry but once again reality shows you are simply wrong.
Cakes do not a marriage legitimize.
Flowers do not a marriage legitimize.
Church services do not a marriage legitimize.
Gods do not a marriage legitimizes.
A secular license from a secular 0g0overnment and sanction from a duly authorized agent of the State a marriage legitimize.
What you do is whine and post falsehoods.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 7:41 PM Faith has not replied

Porosity
Member (Idle past 2093 days)
Posts: 158
From: MT, USA
Joined: 06-15-2013


(1)
Message 56 of 115 (796424)
12-29-2016 8:06 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Faith
12-29-2016 4:35 PM


You don't get to define what's biblical. We know what's biblical, and our rejection of gay marriage is determined by the Bible.
What a load of crap.. You're just cherry picking the bits that you think makes it acceptable to discriminate.
It's biblical to own slaves, including even selling your own daughter as a sex slave. Child abuse, murder, rape, animal sacrifice, pillage and plunder are also biblical. Why are you not endorsing these things?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 4:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 12-30-2016 12:44 AM Porosity has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 57 of 115 (796425)
12-29-2016 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Faith
12-29-2016 6:17 PM


Marriage is clearly defined in the Bible as a man and a woman, and homosexuality is clearly defined as a sin, not a legitimate "lifestyle."
And just as clearly, it is not possible to divorce since you cannot pull apart something God has put together.
You are not allowed to define another person's reading of the Bible
Exactly. So why do you?
You are not allowed to define another person's reading of the Bible or another's conscience, sorry.
And you are not allowed to open a business and refuse to provide services you provide everyone else to certain groups, sorry.
Marriage is clearly defined in the Bible as a man and a woman
A marriage is clearly defined in the United States of America as being between two people. You are living in the USA and not the Bible, right?
In any case you will find that the more Christian businesses are challenged to do something special or personal that validates gay marriage the more Christians will have to refuse and be punished for it.
Well sure, and those that call themselves Chrisitians that refuse black people or Jews or Satanists or Muslims will be punished just as Muslims that refuse Christians or Jews or black people or Satanists or homosexuals or Christians. Hardly persecution. They could just, you know, adjust their business to accommodate changes in the law like every other business must or face sanction.
Your thinking they are wrong carries no more weight than the Catholics thinking the Protestants wrong who refused to accept papal law and chose torture and death instead.
True, but you thinking the law is wrong carries no more weight than that either. You are subject to the law and your religion should give you no special exemptions be you True Christian or Catholic or Muslim Jew or Satanist.
Of course calling us evil will justify whatever your group want to do to us too
quote:
wickedness not to be named
quote:
disgusting
quote:
unnatural
quote:
criminal
quote:
mental disorder
quote:
shit eating paedophiles
quote:
sodomites
quote:
sinners
quote:
fags
quote:
destroying America
quote:
detestable
quote:
great evil
quote:
homos
quote:
terrorists
Well I suppose you'd know, Christians wrote the book on calling people evil to justify treating them like shit. Like when Jesus refused to have anything to do with the sinful woman, right?
And how childish of you to pretend I want to harm you in any way.
Whether you want it or not, you and the group you identify with, have. Either through actual actions, or supporting those who take those actions with money, words or votes.
I'm called to die for my beliefs and bless my enemies.
I don't see much of it. I see a lot of Christians condemning their enemies with bitter and hateful words, denying them employment, housing, medical care and other services. Why not bless those homosexuals who have secured a government licence to marry one another? You don't have to believe God is bringing them together in holy matrimony to do that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Faith, posted 12-29-2016 6:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Faith, posted 12-30-2016 12:52 AM Modulous has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 58 of 115 (796430)
12-30-2016 12:37 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Modulous
12-29-2016 7:50 PM


Its the bit where you enjoy the benefits of operating a public business but deliberately exclude members of a group that is regularly attacked and ostracized for doing nothing harmful to you and hope that a community of like minded people will support you in your tactics of exclusion which increases the probability of people engaging in self harm or suicide.
That's ridiculous. It would be so much easier not to fight it. It takes courage to stand up to a law like this one and we are the ones who suffer from it, not you. Nobody's enjoying excluding people, just don't ask us to validate gay marriage, we're open to anything else you want. You don't have to go to Christians for your gay wedding, but you want to get even with us because we represent all the pain you've experienced. Why, I don't know. We aren't the only group that can't support gay marriage, orthodox Jews can't and neither can Muslims. They also run bakeries, make wedding cakes, arrange flowers and do photography. So do atheists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Modulous, posted 12-29-2016 7:50 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Modulous, posted 12-30-2016 8:45 AM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 59 of 115 (796431)
12-30-2016 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Porosity
12-29-2016 8:06 PM


You don't get to define what's biblical. We know what's biblical, and our rejection of gay marriage is determined by the Bible.
What a load of crap.. You're just cherry picking the bits that you think makes it acceptable to discriminate.
It's biblical to own slaves, including even selling your own daughter as a sex slave. Child abuse, murder, rape, animal sacrifice, pillage and plunder are also biblical. Why are you not endorsing these things?
Wow. THIS is the "load of crap." You actually think we like making people unhappy? Wow. It is not "biblical" to own slaves, it was tolerated because it was universal, it was also powerfully hedged about by laws protecting the wellbeing of the slaves, and then it was Christians who finally ended slavery. It was condoned and practiced by every people on earth and still is by a great majority of the world. Your views are just the standard anti-Christian propaganda that is historically false that has become so popular in recent years. YOU are the ones who want to make US suffer, it is not the other way around. All the rest of what you call biblical is a ridiculous pack of lies, at best out of context. You confuse historical facts that are condemned by the Bible though reported accurately, that are representative of sin and not of God's law -- confuse them with God's commands. It is really not hard to tell the difference if you read the Bible honestly; it is a report about sinful humanity, along with a record of God's laws that SHOULD be obeyed but never are and never were. Your post is the proof that it is Christians who are being demonized and persecuted. Trump up false accustaions and you can do anything you want to the group so vilified, as the Nazis knew. Thanks for that much.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Porosity, posted 12-29-2016 8:06 PM Porosity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Porosity, posted 12-30-2016 8:43 PM Faith has replied

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 60 of 115 (796432)
12-30-2016 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Modulous
12-29-2016 8:33 PM


And you are not allowed to open a business and refuse to provide services you provide everyone else to certain groups, sorry.
By rights we should not provide wedding services to polygamists or divorced people either, but if you keep the situation to yourself that conflict of conscience wouldn't become a problem. Same if it isn't revealed it's a gay wedding you want catered. Sorry, but we will deny service for any purpose condemned by God. And it's we who suffer for this, contrary to the innsanity being expressed here. Go ahead persecute us. You've been waiting for years to "get even," haven't you?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Modulous, posted 12-29-2016 8:33 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Modulous, posted 12-30-2016 8:48 AM Faith has not replied

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