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Author | Topic: Murder by prayer: When is enough, enough? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4189 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
I said many more than 1000 use hospitals. I don't have figures but I would say that 1000 times more people use hospitals than use prayer.
There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4189 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
as for the poster whose wife is a 'doctor' you attack christians, she is fair game. We don't attack Christians, we attack kooks whatever their beliefs are. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
archaeologist writes: for the former, i have. for the latter not so much. you all do the same thing, you will blindly defend systems knowing they are bad, just because i or some other christian supports healing by prayer and exposes those inferior medical practices. To expose something you must publish the study that supports your assertions. If you have the data to support your expos then this is certainly a great opportunity to present it.
as for the poster whose wife is a 'doctor' you attack christians, she is fair game. I am a Christian. Am I 'fair game'? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
without God there is NO morality. I'm sorry but that is not just false, it is misrepresenting what the Bible actually says. In Genesis 3 God himself says that
quote: therefore man has the capability to determine morality. BUT... the Bible goes even further and says that at times man is charged to even instruct God on matters of morality, to correct God when God is about to make an immoral decision. Read Genesis 18.
quote: there are no human rights without religious beliefs or did you learn nothing from your history lessons on the nazis, the japanese, the khmer rouge, the communists...? you just do not know what you are talking about and let your hatred do your thinking for you More nonsense. Hitler was a devout Christian and acted based on his Christian beliefs. From Mein Kampf:
quote: Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Omnivorous Member Posts: 3978 From: Adirondackia Joined: Member Rating: 7.3
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Hi, DA.
I noted in your list of cases that only one involved an injury--the toddler who bled to death because he was a hemophiliac. The mistrust of physicians made some sense in the era recorded in the Bible: they had little to offer against disease, most of it harmful. Without a theory of disease, taking an illness as the judgment of God wasn't entirely unreasonable, since nothing physicians could do made any difference, and sufferers lived or died in an otherwise willy-nilly fashion. Still, wounds were washed and bound. For example, the Good Samaritan did that-- he didn't merely pray that God's will be done. Similarly, prayer-only healers today lack a theory of disease: God's will must be done, but we can petition the Lord with prayer to spare some child already condemned by being sinful and unclean (the biblical explanation of disease). Nonetheless, in the only case of injury you cite, they did bandage the boy's cut. The contradiction is obvious. If survival is a matter of prayer and God's will, then why interfere with injuries and not with illness? The mystery of illness gives these parents the cover they need, psychologically and socially. Mikey slashing his femoral artery on a fence is unmistakably an event in the natural world, and they treat it as such--what parent, even among these pitiful examples, would say, no, let the boy bleed; God will decide. Nor, I suspect, would they say, no, don't set my broken leg, it's up to God. Nor would the courts and legislatures fold so readily in the face of parents who kept EMTs from taking their car-struck kid to the ER. These modern parents also lack a theory of disease other than the supernatural. Their victims die from their parents' ignorance, not their failure of faith or God's lack of mercy. An educational system that cannot sustain the teaching of evolution as a fact cannot reliably teach the real causes of disease. Ignorance loves a vacuum. So I'd say faith-only healing should, at most, only be allowed at or after the age of consent. After all, you shouldn't be able to kill your kids at a younger age than strangers can fuck them. Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?! -Gogol Bordello
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
I said many more than 1000 use hospitals. I don't have figures but I would say that 1000 times more people use hospitals than use prayer. Don't most people use both? An interesting question would be whether people who don't pray are less healthy. I wonder if I can find out.
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Woodsy Member (Idle past 3374 days) Posts: 301 From: Burlington, Canada Joined: |
An interesting question would be whether people who don't pray are less healthy. I wonder if I can find out.
It's not the same thing, but I have seen a study mentioned that had people pray for some heart patients and not for others. In some cases the patients knew they were being prayed for, in other cases they did not know. If I remember rightly, the Templeton Foundation was involved. The only group that showed a difference was those patients who knew they were being prayed for, and they had worse outcomes than the other two groups. It would indeed be interesting to know the result of the patients themselves praying. ]
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
The only group that showed a difference was those patients who knew they were being prayed for, and they had worse outcomes than the other two groups. this is the exact opposite from what i have heard.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
i rarely reply to JAR as he is so off it isn't funny but in this case i will make an exception.
To expose something you must publish the study that supports your assertions. no i don't. i just have to speak the truth. scientific studies are so limited and manipulated that they cannot be counted on.
I am a Christian no you are not. the word 'christian' means 'christ-like' and Christ did not call any part of the OT a myth, fairy tale and He believed and taught the creative act. you are far from anything christian.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
and here:
[qs]More nonsense. Hitler was a devout Christian and acted based on his Christian beliefs. From Mein Kampf: quote: "Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."[qs]
that is so laughable. that goes against what God said. read 1 John. Hitler was not a christian.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
And because of people who don't want their children to be treated for a perfectly curable disease. you really shouldn't criticize nor condemn what you really do not understand. plus it is NOT your call on what other parents do withtheir families, they are responsible not you. you are responsible for raising your family in the correct way which, judging by your posts, you have failed to do as well.
yet you don;t go to a doctor and die. really? when i was 18 one of my best friends went to the hospital with a curable disease and died. you distort the reality because you hate Christ and christianity. under your logic the parents would be considered irresponisible and should go to jail. your hatred influences your thinking in the wrong way. Edited by archaeologist, : No reason given.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Don't fucking quotemine me, i will do what i want, it is my posts and you have no say in the matter,.
And none of your posts are worth replying to because your sheer stupidity and faith influences your thinking at all. this and the following sentences are the reason you are not getting a response. your hatred shows that you cannot be objective thus any conclusion coming from you, any point, are biased and unacceptable.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
Well, you can be damn sure that someone suffering from diabetes will most likely have survived if only they'd gotten that insulin shot. you all need to keep in mind that it is your attitude that keeps me from sayng more. i say the minimal because i know you will reject any reasonable comment i make. your emotionalism is unreliable as you place a greater value on children than you do any other human life and that is wrong. childrens' lives are NOT greater nor ore important than a father's or a mother's or even a single person's. so you really got to get off this women's thinking mode and see the reality. Children are not immune to things that take place in adult lives. sin is sin and God judges them all the same. if the children were as nnocent as you think, then they would not have been destroyed in the flood. learn that lesson well, God does not make exceptions for ladies who lower their blouses, hike their skirts or bats their eyes and he does not give free passes to children either. He judges all the same and uses the same criteria for all. if He didn't then then He would not be God, and could not be trusted. which means that your standards do not matter and parents are given th eright to raise their families as they see fit. i highly doubt you would want an american evangelical forcing you to raise your kids their way--so do not do it to them.
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archaeologist Inactive Member |
JUST saw this article about a british study, you may find it interesting:
http://news.yahoo.com/...me/eu_med_britain_doctors_and_death
LONDON — Doctors who are atheist or agnostic are twice as likely to make decisions that could end the lives of their terminally ill patients, compared to doctors who are very religious, according to a new study in Britain.
Dr. Clive Seale, a professor at Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, conducted a random mail survey of more than 3,700 doctors across Britain, of whom 2,923 reported on how they took care of their last terminal patient. Many of the doctors surveyed were neurologists, doctors specializing in the care of the elderly, and palliative care, though other specialists like family doctors, were also included. Doctors who described themselves as "extremely" or "very nonreligious" were nearly twice as likely to report having made decisions like providing continuous deep sedation, which could accelerate a patient's death. To ensure doctors are acting in accordance with their patients' wishes, Seale wrote that "nonreligious doctors should confess their predilections to their patients."
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jar Member (Idle past 394 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
archaeologist writes: i rarely reply to JAR as he is so off it isn't funny but in this case i will make an exception.
jar writes: To expose something you must publish the study that supports your assertions. no i don't. i just have to speak the truth. scientific studies are so limited and manipulated that they cannot be counted on. Did you say
quote: in the very message I was replying to? What exactly is your plan to support healing by prayer and expose those inferior medical practices? Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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