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Author Topic:   Thank You Adam Smith.
Phat
Member
Posts: 7345
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 31 of 124 (346767)
09-05-2006 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Brian
09-05-2006 4:43 PM


Re: And thank you....
Brian writes:

Did Smith (indirectly of course)have anything to do with training Russian linesmen in the 1960's?

If you believe in the butterfly effect you may then extrapolate that every human interaction throughout history of itself produces enormous changes to the entire social paradigm.

In knowing you, I believe that my ideas about religion, atheism, human nobility, and Scottish Pubs has changed! By flapping your wings in Scotland, you made a Phat difference in Denver! :)


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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 32 of 124 (346769)
09-05-2006 5:57 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
09-05-2006 4:47 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
That's a good question.

I guess I wouldn't know how to answer it other than, I think that these things would probably come about without Smith's existance. It's just that Smith represents what happens when humans invent currencies, and become greedy, and focus their lives on the gain of material "wealth". He not only invented capitalism. But he has become what it all really is. He epitomizes the rat-race that he created in his works.

You should read this article from the sunday NY times that messenjah showed me, Dr. Chen from Harvard I believe, taught monkeys how to use money. There were many cases of stealing, and even a case of paying for sex. Doesn't say much for the mathematical genius that invests. Doesn't say much for almost all of the human race today does it?

Edited by prophex, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 563 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 33 of 124 (346771)
09-05-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Brian
09-05-2006 5:54 PM


Re: And thank you....
Maybe he got it his bright ideas while cottaging.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 34 of 124 (346772)
09-05-2006 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by joshua221
09-05-2006 5:57 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
He epitomizes the rat-race that he created in his works.

The "rat-race" is unavoidable.


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iano
Member (Idle past 81 days)
Posts: 6163
From: Co. Wicklow, Ireland.
Joined: 07-27-2005


Message 35 of 124 (346773)
09-05-2006 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by robinrohan
09-05-2006 5:59 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
I was just thinking that myself. I think Prophex should take a course in history - not philosophy.
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robinrohan
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 124 (346775)
09-05-2006 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Phat
09-05-2006 5:47 PM


Re: What are the parameters of a theory?(or a belief)
Does a serious student of Adam Smith have to understand everything that Smith wrote?

I certainly don't feel the need to.

My interaction is with prophex and with the rest of you---not in defending or attacking Adam Smith.

Oh, I thought you were saying that a student needs to question everything.


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CK
Member (Idle past 563 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 37 of 124 (346776)
09-05-2006 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by joshua221
09-05-2006 5:57 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
quote:
It's just that Smith represents what happens when humans invent currencies, and become greedy, and focus their lives on the gain of material "wealth".

But why do you single smith out - people were using money before Jesus.

quote:
He not only invented capitalism.

He did? When? Which specific bits of his work support that idea?

Edited by CK, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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CK
Member (Idle past 563 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 38 of 124 (346779)
09-05-2006 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by iano
09-05-2006 6:00 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
Originally I was going to answer each of the points in the original post but I got bored with typing "nope pre-dated smith by XXXX".

I've only got sooooo much time to waste on the net.... :laugh:


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Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 39 of 124 (346782)
09-05-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Brian
09-05-2006 5:52 PM


Re: And thank you....
quote:
How is it affecting your personal beliefs?

It isn't.

quote:
For example, take the current topic, do you think it is a reasonable argument that if God created Smith then ultimately it is God who we should thank for your list, or should we be thanking Eve for eating that fruit?

God allows human suffering, doesn't he?

Why would a benevolent creator allow for this?

I think he gave us our chance to do good. For altruism. But we were incapable of doing so, we did everything in my post, that is what the fruit most likely represents. Our inability to do good for eachother.

quote:
Also, don't you think that you need to look at the influences on Smith's life and also the people that have improved Smith's original ideas?


It's less about him, he's just the title for what is apparent.

He's just there to represent the beginning stages of capitalism, and of the perpetuation of the collection of money, trade, and materialism.

It's far beyond Adam Smith. Far, Far beyond his feeble workings.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 7345
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 40 of 124 (346783)
09-05-2006 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by joshua221
09-05-2006 5:57 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
Im trying to google the Times article...it sounds interesting.
prophex writes:

Doesn't say much for the mathematical genius that invests. Doesn't say much for almost all of the human race today does it?

Collectively, the words and ideas of the human race are the summation of progress.

We need to remain optimistic.

We can't act like Solomon in Ecclesiastes. He may well have been right in his conclusions, but in an educational setting, I believe that we should be encouraged to talk about silver linings and not clouds.

I was birthed in fundamentalism, though not so much creationism as you were.

They say that an expert at counterfeit money becomes an expert, not by studying counterfeit money but by studying real money.

I used to have disdain for atheistic thinking, but one thing that my friends who are not believers have taught me is that if I wish to be a good Christian apologist, I would do well to study the culture of Christianity rather than the culture of atheism and freethinking.

Its like you said once, though. I believe because I was touched---not because I was brainwashed. Keep up your studies, dood.

Don't be afraid to learn new ideas.


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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 41 of 124 (346785)
09-05-2006 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by CK
09-05-2006 6:02 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
Read my post to Brian at the bottom, it really wasn't about Smith.

"The Wealth of Nations"


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 Message 37 by CK, posted 09-05-2006 6:02 PM CK has responded

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Brian
Member (Idle past 1395 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 42 of 124 (346787)
09-05-2006 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by iano
09-05-2006 6:00 PM


history v philosophy
I think Prophex should take a course in history - not philosophy.

I think you are correct, for once. ;)

Philosophy is an extremely difficult subject, especially for a young person. History is more concrete, although the abstract is in there it isn't the main feature.

I think everyone would benefit from taking a history course, especially one about what history actually is.

If someone is a deep thinker, and dwells on the ills of the world, then taking a philosophy course could lead to real psychological problems.

Please note that I am in no way suggesting that this relates to prophex, but I have seen at first hand some very messed up students on philosophy courses.

Brian.


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Replies to this message:
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joshua221 
Inactive Suspended Member


Message 43 of 124 (346788)
09-05-2006 6:13 PM


I'll get back to you guys tomorrow hopefully.

Peace


  
CK
Member (Idle past 563 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 44 of 124 (346789)
09-05-2006 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by joshua221
09-05-2006 6:11 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
Yes I'm aware of "The Wealth of Nations" - I have three or four copies knocking around the place - what about it? Which bits do you wish to use as support? Just the broad themes will be fine.
This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 7345
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 45 of 124 (346791)
09-05-2006 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by CK
09-05-2006 6:04 PM


Re: The Wealth Of Nations is the bankruptcy of Culture
I waste most of my time in chat! :)

It is the lazy mans way out---one does not have to think as much in real time as they do if they are writing a paper (or a post)

I can't speak for Charlie, but I was under the impression that he wanted this topic to be more about the free flow of ideas in general, rather than a critique on Adam Smith specifically.

If not, I have nothing to say---you are right! ;)


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