How the geo strata are identified as time periods

Stop accusing me of "seeking" creationist rebuttals when I've specifically said I want to avoid that. If people ask me questions there may be no way to avoid them. That's what I've said.I'd say leave the thread alone. It may be a mess but we're in the business of defining it and it may sort itself out with the clarifications that have been getting stated.

That was funny, Anglagard.Perhaps a rewording is in order: "Jar's remarks might be construed by an oberver as condescending."

Totally condescending and patronizing, but I don't care about that. The problem is he's not addressing what the OP was about, and wants to lead me down some long winding trail of preparatory ideas of his own choosing that don't seem to me to be at all related to the purpose of the thread, and that I already know quite a bit about.

I'd be happy to, but it'll be somewhat slow. This $70 oil keeps us hoppin'.

I'd love to see Jar try to help lead this discussion in a step by step process. He did a brilliant job (as far as I'm concerned ) of leading the Grand Canyon thread way back when and I think that same style would work well in this discussion.Regardless of whether or not it is Jar that does it, this discussion should be limited to only one or two people answering questions otherwise things will just get confused.

If jar wants to lead this and others want to contribute to what he's doing, that's fine.THE MAIN THING FROM MY POINT OF VIEW IS THAT I WOULD REALLY LIKE TO TAKE A BACK SEAT, just go along for the ride, not be asked questions, but ask them myself if I may.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I have a standing open door to Faith to discuss what I know about geology as long as it stays civil. If this is to be a learning thread, I think that would be quite nice actually.Let me know where you want to take this if you want me to participate. I can simplify my first post into the one main topic of absolute dating. Everything concrete about how we identify layers starts from there. That is if I understand correctly that you want to know how layers are named/dated by mainstream geology. From abolute dating we can talk about the other things you seem to be interested in such as index fossils, layer continuity, etc.Just let me know what you want.Edited by Jazzns, : No reason given.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

I think she wants someone else to ask the questions, and as such, I proposed last night that I ask the questions--seeing as how I know little about geology.that way, she can just watch. And faith already said she had no problem with me doing this--just waiting on (you?) to agree.so if you do agree, bring it down to as nontechnical an explanation as you can--treat me as if I'm in the first day of geology 101 at college (second day for me in real life--but no geo class ).

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

That would probably help get us started. I hereby delegate kuresu to be the official student on this thread.You can get the thread rolling by addressing questions to anybody of your choosing I would say, jar or jazz or coragyps or all three. Maybe in fact the three of them would be a good group of teachers for the thread.And I can read along and ask questions myself when I have them.

I'm not accusing you of anything. I merely described what you did in Message 26, which was to respond to Jar's statement of the principle of superposition with this: My suggestion was that you would learn more by not seeking out creationist rebuttals like this one to what people present in this thread. I think you would learn much more by posting your own reactions and questions with the goal of understanding (not accepting, just understanding) basic geological principles related to sedimentary layers.I further suggest that you leave aside from this thread your tendency to seek offense at every turn. If you want to complain about mistreatment, such as people accusing you of things you didn't do, then please take it to the appropriate thread. Please allow this thread to focus on the topic.--Percy

Okay, so here's my first question. or first set.1)what are the layers made out of.2)do the different materials have different settling. As in, how does each type of rock settle.3)as a continuation of 2, how do the layers settle. all I can ask, is KISS, or maybe KISP is more polite. I want to know if there are any basic rules to settling, and if so, what are they--again, the basics.

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

The other folk will, I'm sure have lots to contribute but let me start with what is called clastic sedimentary rocks. They make up a bunch of what we see in the field. Clastic sedimentary rocks are made up of smaller individual pieces. You can tell a lot about them from just looking. For example they might be made up of small pieces or bigger pieces, they might be sorted or not sorted. In addition just by looking at the pieces you can get an idea of how far and long they wer transported.Here are some basics.Little pieces used to be big pieces.The smoother the pieces are the more they were transported and tumbled.You can see an example of size sorting and what causes it here.And here are some examples of wear and roundness with an explanation of what causes it.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I'll try to KISS but I can't promise it won't be a little lengthy. Probably the most illuminating answer to this is to describe the three main types of rock. They are:Igneous Rocks: Rocks formed by the cooling of molten material from the mantle of the earth.Sedimentary Rocks: Rocks made from compacted and lithified (glued together) sediment. Sediment is loose material that comes from the weathering of other Igneous, Sedimentary, or Metamorphic rocks.Metamorphic Rocks: Rocks that have been altered in some way usually by heat and pressure. These rocks have different properties than their original form due to the metamorphism.A layer may constitute any of these rock types. Also each rock type can be broken down into further categories. For example, there are two basic types of Igneous rocks being intrusive and volcanic. Settling really only applies to particles held in suspension. For the most part this only applies to sedimentary rocks because they are constructed of loose material that is transported. During transport the material is in some state of suspension in either the air or water.Settling follows the basic property of physics concerning the amount of energy required to keep an object of a certain mass in motion. If there is not enough energy in the wind or water flow to hold a particular particle in suspension it will fall out of suspension. This is very basic.3 is answered above. It really doesn't make much sense to talk about how the three major rock types settle unless you want to get into the specifics of each kind of sedimentary rock.To keep this line of questioning on topic, you may want to further your questions onto the subject of igneous rocks because they are the main type of rock used to identify time periods in the geo strata per the OP.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)

length aint a problem for me.okay--so settling doesn't have much, if anything, to do with the layers forming?okay, on to the igneous rocks. I knew the three types, and I know that each has several categories, but . . .1)what is an intrusive igneous rock?
2)same for the other category (extrusive or volcanic?)
3) how does each form (answered with the appropriate previous question, perhaps uneccessary question here.
4)might sound a little stupid, but how do the igneous layers form?

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All a man's knowledge comes from his experiences

Settling does have much to do with layers forming. It is just isolated to sediment or ash falling out of suspension. It just does not seem to call the creation of the other rock types by that name.1) What is an intrusive igneous rock?An intrusive igneous rock is a rock that is created by magma cooling in the crust. Because it is allowed to cool slowly, larger crystals of similar elements form {these crystals have a name that I forgot}. A popular example of an intrusive igneous rock is granite.2) What is an extrusive igneous or volcanic rock?Volcanic or extrusive igneous rock is created by the action of magma coming to the surface and cooling there. This includes ash that is ejected from some of the more explosive volcanoes. Because the magma is at the surface it cools quickly and the structure is uniform. This is in contrast to the intrusive igneous rock with its large crystals. Good popular examples of volcanic rock are obsidian and pumice.4) How do the igneous layers form?It is hard to call an intrusive igneous rock a "layer" because it is created when a magma body rises up intruding into other rock and then cooling. This leaves behind a large non-uniform bulk of igneous rock right in the middle of other "stuff" which may be layers or not. Depending on the size of the solidified magma body there are two names for these object. A large one is called a batholith while a small one is called a pluton. When these are pushed to the surface or the surface is eroded down to these, often these object stick out creating large granitic mountain ranges such as the Rockies. The Sandia mountains where I live are a pluton that was pushed up to the surface by tectonic activity.Just because intrusive igneous rock though does not leave a "layer" behind does not mean it cannot be used to help give a difinitive age of the surrounding rock. Hopefully this will spawn some nice questions about how. =)Other igneous rocks can form "layers" in the more basic sense in that they leave behind material that is spread out over an area. A lava flow will cover whatever layer happens to be at the surface. Ash also eventually falls down over a quite wide area in some cases which is extrodinarily helpful becuase it gives a single continuous layer over a wide are that helps sync up the column. For example, you can tell by the ash from two different locations if the ash samples came from the same eruption. Therefore you can tell that the layer immediatly beneath the ash, even if they are of a different type, are of the same age.

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Of course, biblical creationists are committed to belief in God's written Word, the Bible, which forbids bearing false witness; --AIG (lest they forget)