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Author Topic:   The Awesome Obama Thread II
Perdition
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 1592
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 391 of 397 (656595)
03-20-2012 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by dronester
03-20-2012 12:43 PM


Re: Arguments of sovereignty, back on the table . . .
Huh? I don't know how you can entertain both extreme ideas in your head. No wonder you find it strange that I am having such a difficult time replying to your posts.

If you are attacked, you have the right to retaliate.

Now, I agree that we've done many things, as a country, to provoke attacks like the ones on 9/11, I'm not removing all guilt from the feet of America.

Perdition, this is an area where we are at exact polar opposites. You view the military as a source of potential solutions, I see the military as ONLY a source of PROBLEMS/CRIMINALITY. Asking the military for advice will only get you military "solutions.

Not exactly. When we are in a military engagement, which we would have been as soon as the first boots touched ground in Afghanistan, then listening to people who have experience in military engagements is, in my opinion, probably a good idea.

So why did he recommend his cabinet be stacked with war-mongerer appointees to influential positions with foreign policy

I'm not thrilled with all of the people he surrounded himself with as advisors. The economic advisors were likewise poor choices in my opinion.

As another similar example, why did so many news writers, military advisers, talk show "analysts" who wrongly promoted the Iraq war retain their jobs in the media?

Well, with the possible exception of the military advisors (assuming you're talking about those who advise the government officials), Obama has no control over who keeps their jobs. Those decisions are made by the companies that employ those individuals. Also, if media people were going to be fired for making incorrect analyses, you'd quickly find that there would be no one willing to analyze anything, leaving us with even more vapid news commentary than we currently enjoy. There are a lot of analysts I disagree with, and I avoid Fox News like the plague, but having people with opposing viewpoints, and listening to their reasoning is a good thing.

Besides, free speech isn't just a slogan.

IF the corporate media wanted the truth.

You and I both know that there is no liberal media, and that what corporate media wants is ratings.

Yes, I understand that the government and the corporate media would have liked you to believe that

Common sense wants me to believe that. Fuel for the ships and aircraft to get out costs money. Bullets, clothes, food, energy, all cost money, and all are necessary to enact an ordered withdrawal that doesn't put our troops, nor the native population at risk. A power vaccuum is bad for those we leave behind.

If I was forced at gunpoint to be president of the US on 2009, I would be FOR: surrounding myself with people who have easily seen through the lies of the Iraqi WMD, who understand that "military solutions" are an oxymoron, who understand that only REAL diplomacy can ever achieve lasting peace. Believe it or not, there were many who didn't believe the immoral simpleton, Bush Jr.: "the terrorists attacked us because they hate our freedom". I wouldn't hire those mentally retarded mindsets, as Obama has done. I'd surround myself with the opposite "mindsets." That is what I am "for".

That's a good start. And if those people you surround yourself with agree that it's not so simple as saying, "Ok, everyone come home now." and that continuing the wars for a bit longer with an eye on an ordered withdrawal is the best way out of the current debacle?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by dronester, posted 03-20-2012 12:43 PM dronester has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by dronester, posted 03-20-2012 1:16 PM Perdition has responded

    
dronester
Member
Posts: 1123
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 392 of 397 (656596)
03-20-2012 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Perdition
03-20-2012 1:00 PM


Re: Arguments of sovereignty, back on the table . . .
One of your better posts Perdition, good job. Some nitpicks . . .

Perd writes:

Besides, free speech isn't just a slogan.

When it is knowingly war propaganda, I think it should be criminal.

Perd writes:

That's a good start. And if those people you surround yourself with agree that it's not so simple as saying, "Ok, everyone come home now." and that continuing the wars for a bit longer with an eye on an ordered withdrawal is the best way out of the current debacle?

I am absolutely CONFIDENT there ARE smart/highly-informed/educated/moral people in the world who see war as truly a last resort (and that would make good advisors).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Perdition, posted 03-20-2012 1:00 PM Perdition has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by Perdition, posted 03-20-2012 2:27 PM dronester has not yet responded

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 368 days)
Posts: 1592
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 393 of 397 (656603)
03-20-2012 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 392 by dronester
03-20-2012 1:16 PM


Re: Arguments of sovereignty, back on the table . . .
One of your better posts Perdition, good job. Some nitpicks . . .

Thanks.

When it is knowingly war propaganda, I think it should be criminal.

This would be very difficult to enforce. For one thing, how do you prove it was "knowingly" war propaganda? How do you define "war propaganda"? Would you be comfortable with someone you disagree with being in power and holding the enforcement of this law over your head?

I am absolutely CONFIDENT there ARE smart/highly-informed/educated/moral people in the world who see war as truly a last resort (and that would make good advisors).

I'd like to consider myself one of these people. The thing with last resorts, though, is that you have them because sometimes they are necessary.

Many of the military engagements this country has been involved in have been bad decisions (at best), but some of them have been worthwhile, IMHO.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 392 by dronester, posted 03-20-2012 1:16 PM dronester has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 9977
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 394 of 397 (670676)
08-17-2012 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by crashfrog
02-08-2012 8:17 PM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
Crash writes:

Obama's gonna sail to re-election and the next job Romney's gonna have is hawking boner pills. All because Obama has the incredible sense to get out of the way when his opponents are determined to knock themselves out.

Do you still think this is the case?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by crashfrog, posted 02-08-2012 8:17 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 395 by crashfrog, posted 08-17-2012 9:40 AM Straggler has responded

  
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 395 of 397 (670686)
08-17-2012 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 394 by Straggler
08-17-2012 8:39 AM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
Sure. Why wouldn't I? The Ryan pick may as well have been Romney's concession speech.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 394 by Straggler, posted 08-17-2012 8:39 AM Straggler has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by Straggler, posted 08-17-2012 1:13 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 9977
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 396 of 397 (670709)
08-17-2012 1:13 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by crashfrog
08-17-2012 9:40 AM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
From afar there seems to be some indication that Romney is gaining traction.

As the biggest cheer leader for Obama I have come across I wondered what you made of that.

But I am not claiming to have any great insight or point here. I literally wanted to know what your current thinking on Obama's chances are at the moment.

A status of "unchanged" and "clear winner" seems to be your position.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by crashfrog, posted 08-17-2012 9:40 AM crashfrog has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 397 by ramoss, posted 08-18-2012 9:51 AM Straggler has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 2819
Joined: 08-11-2004


Message 397 of 397 (670747)
08-18-2012 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 396 by Straggler
08-17-2012 1:13 PM


Re: Next campaign as pragmatic and non-idealistic as the last one?
I think there is a big boost among the strong conservatives , but I also think as Paul Ryan starts getting known , there will be a decrease among the moderates.

It does seem, so far, Romney is keeping Ryan on a short leash, something that could not be done with Palin.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 396 by Straggler, posted 08-17-2012 1:13 PM Straggler has not yet responded

  
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