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Author Topic:   Christians should pray for evil.
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 295 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 1 of 53 (381254)
01-30-2007 12:12 PM


I have notice that when most of us pray , we pray for good things to happen to others, to ourselves, to the world etc.
We sometimes see our prayers answered, sometimes not.
I believe that the spiritual world is in balance.
The tree of knowledge has two sides, good and evil. Both limbs are of equal length.
We stand in the crook of this tree seeing both limbs, one on each side of us. We must start our lessons on good and evil by starting to climb these limbs. Witch side do we start on. The easy side off goodness or the harder side of evil.
From Eves point of view, She already has an example of good in the garden. God has already stated that it was good. Will she chose to learn about something she already knows. In climbing terms one leg is already up on the good side.
The natural progression then would be to climb on the evil side in order to balance.
This is the choice she made and it was the right choice.
Why is it so hard for Christians to understand this simple truth.
This would indicate to us that we must identify evil and name it before we can climb the other good side of the tree to find the good answer to whatever was found to be evil. This seems to be the logical thing to do.
Why is this simple fact not understood.
To do otherwise, or the opposite would make us look greedy for the good side while letting the evil side go hungry for solutions and answers from us. This would cause imbalance and seen in physical terms, the climber of the tree would have one leg way too high from the other and his stance is quite uncomfortable.
If Eve simply stayed on the side of good, the tree would eventually bend towards that side and eventually break. Not God’s plan.
She took the right path for humanity.
We should thank Her and give the female side of humanity the just reward that it deserves.
How does this effect praying.
We see that good is always slightly ahead of evil on our climb. Should we then pray for more good and throw us off balance. No.
Then should we pray for evil. In a sense yes.
I do not mean to pray to Satan by my comment. I mean that those who truly believe should pray for personal evils “because we can take it” and by bringing evil upon ourselves we take it away from those less able to take it.
IE. Of late I suffer physical pain. When I am in one of my painful times I pray for more pain in the hope that my absorption of physical pain will help shorten the distance that I need to reach up on the next step to the evil side of my personal tree and also for the same to others.
God’s world is already full of prayers for pleasure and good. I think He is more likely to hear from those who wish to shorten the climb on the evil side instead of praying to the good side that is already shorter than the other.
In conclusion.
If we all pray for woes to come to ourselves then we increase the amount of goodness that is available to others. This is the Christian way. This is the message of turning the other cheek.
Regards
DL

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 02-01-2007 2:13 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 02-01-2007 6:46 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 8 by anastasia, posted 02-01-2007 7:00 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 9 by Coragyps, posted 02-01-2007 7:10 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 28 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-02-2007 8:31 PM Greatest I am has not replied
 Message 35 by Calypso, posted 02-10-2007 12:03 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
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Message 2 of 53 (381633)
02-01-2007 11:43 AM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 3313 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 3 of 53 (381656)
02-01-2007 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
01-30-2007 12:12 PM


Greatest writes:
I believe that the spiritual world is in balance.
This sentence pretty much sums up a large part of my point. It is YOUR belief. One problem I see with this is this isn't the Force where the chosen one is going to restore the balance of the Force and weed out the Jedi Order. This is christianity.
The easy side off goodness or the harder side of evil.
I beg to differ. We know from historical references that people leaned toward what we perceive today as evil long before they leaned toward the good side. For example, bronze age wars more often than not brought about the destruction of entire cities and enslavement or even extinction of entire civilizations. After all, the promised land wasn't empty when the Israelites got there. Did those people just packed up and left?
Even today, we can see examples of evil being the "natural" side people would choose. I started out evil, you know. And it just happens that the most bigotted christians out there are also the most ignorant.
The natural progression then would be to climb on the evil side in order to balance.
This is Earth, not The Galactic Empire. There's no such thing as a balance between good and evil.
Why is this simple fact not understood.
It's not a simple fact. It's not a fact at all.
To do otherwise, or the opposite would make us look greedy for the good side while letting the evil side go hungry for solutions and answers from us.
If you insist, should we start enslaving our neighbors again? May I suggest we invade Canada, sack their cities, and enslave their people? Mexico is another option.
We see that good is always slightly ahead of evil on our climb.
Actually, no it's not. If there's one thing history has taught us is that evil is always one step ahead of good. Let me explain why.
The first question is why do societies generally progress toward what we would say as good? It is because each society is an entity like any other entity. Each society has the will to survive. And to survive, stability seems to be the best way to go at it. After all, how stable is your society if people can steal, rape, and murder at will? Such a society would very quickly break down and seize to exist.
But let's look at it from another angle. Why do we have laws against stealing, rape, and murder? How come we don't have laws against people spreading their wings and fly up high? And further more, how come we only come up with the law against something after it's been demonstrated that people are capable of doing it against others? The reason for all of these is that some time in the past the acts of stealing, rape, and murder have been committed and people generally agreed that they were bad. Wouldn't it be silly to have come up with laws against an act nobody does, like flapping one's arms and try to fly?
Evil, such as stealing, rape, and murder, was one step ahead of good, such as the laws against these acts.
Looking at the greater picture, the international laws agreed upon by the international community are pretty much laws against horrid acts that at one time or other were committed by someone out there. Again, we don't see a law against you flapping your arms to try to fly. We see laws against acts people actually commit.
Then should we pray for evil. In a sense yes.
There's really no need to pray for evil. If there is such a thing as balance between good and evil and that good is too heavy, religious organizations, I'm sure, will eventually do enough evil to balance out the Force... I mean this good and evil thingy like they've done in the past.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2007 12:12 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 5:10 PM Taz has not replied

  
Kader
Member (Idle past 3748 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006


Message 4 of 53 (381664)
02-01-2007 2:55 PM


I think what Greatest is trying to say is praying for BAD (evil) things on us (being a real martyr) is harder then asking for good things to happen to us.
Well I think.
Because otherwise..taz pretty much summed it up

  
Greatest I am
Member (Idle past 295 days)
Posts: 1676
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 5 of 53 (381698)
02-01-2007 5:10 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Taz
02-01-2007 2:13 PM


Good and evil
If you look around at the world today you can easily see that only a small minority of the population are practicing evil.
The vast majority of us are living live that God would be happy with.
How you can say evil is ahead in this race is discredited by the numbers.
This perfect world is living up to God's wishes.
Regards
DL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Taz, posted 02-01-2007 2:13 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Kader, posted 02-01-2007 6:01 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 10 by Doddy, posted 02-01-2007 7:18 PM Greatest I am has replied
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 01-20-2008 2:55 AM Greatest I am has replied

  
Kader
Member (Idle past 3748 days)
Posts: 156
Joined: 12-20-2006


Message 6 of 53 (381704)
02-01-2007 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Greatest I am
02-01-2007 5:10 PM


Re: Good and evil
Now wait a minute.
Lets define evil
Definition:
1. morally bad: profoundly immoral or wrong
2. harmful: deliberately causing great harm, pain, or upset
This evil act is clearly the work of terrorists.
3. causing misfortune: characterized by, bringing, or signifying bad luck
an evil omen
4. malicious: characterized by a desire to cause hurt or harm
an evil mood
5. devilish: connected with the devil or other powerful destructive forces
evil spirits
6. disagreeable: very unpleasant
What an evil smell!
Now whats evil for one person might be good for another, so asserting something like the majority of people are doing good things makes little sense.
The vast majority of us are living live that God would be happy with.
Wich God ?
How you can say evil is ahead in this race is discredited by the numbers.
What numbers ??
This perfect world is living up to God's wishes.
Again, what God are you referring to ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 5:10 PM Greatest I am has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 9:37 PM Kader has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18300
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 7 of 53 (381710)
02-01-2007 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
01-30-2007 12:12 PM


Dualism
GreatestIam writes:
I believe that the spiritual world is in balance.
This is a belief that is not the same as Christianity. Christianity basically asserts that there is one God who is the Creator of all things. Evil was perhaps allowed to exist for reasons that we can only speculate upon.
  • To provide a freely chosen alternative to willful communion with God through His Spirit.
  • To temper us and give us something to resist so that we may become stronger.
  • God may never have actually directly created evil. By choosing disobedience and independence, Lucifer chose an alternate reality...causing God to create evil.
    These are all speculations, but what you seem to be talking about sounds more like dualism.
    Encyclopedia writes:
    The term dualism can refer to a variety of doctrines, mainly in theology and philosophy, each involving the purported existence of two opposites of some kind. These opposites can be, among other things, opposing forces, or opposing ontological or epistemic categories.
    In other words, dualism presupposes two equal and opposite forces...whereas Christian monotheism (be it Trinitarian or strict monotheism) shows One Creator as the source and all realities as allowable creations in which humans can manifest.
    Edited by Phat, : spelling
    Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

    Convictions are very different from intentions. Convictions are something God gives us that we have to do. Intentions are things that we ought to do, but we never follow through with them.
    * * * * * * * * * *

    "Atheism is so senseless. When I look at the solar system. I see the earth at the right distance from the sun to receive the proper amounts of heat and light. This did not happen by chance."-
    --Sir Isaac Newton

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2007 12:12 PM Greatest I am has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 13 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 9:46 PM Phat has not replied

      
    anastasia
    Member (Idle past 5974 days)
    Posts: 1857
    From: Bucks County, PA
    Joined: 11-05-2006


    Message 8 of 53 (381714)
    02-01-2007 7:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
    01-30-2007 12:12 PM


    GreatestIam writes:
    I have notice that when most of us pray , we pray for good things to happen to others, to ourselves, to the world etc.
    We sometimes see our prayers answered, sometimes not.
    I believe that the spiritual world is in balance.
    Well, now you know why the spiritual world is in balance, even though we all pray for good. Whenever the world starts running low on Evil, God just ignores a few prayers.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2007 12:12 PM Greatest I am has not replied

      
    Coragyps
    Member (Idle past 756 days)
    Posts: 5553
    From: Snyder, Texas, USA
    Joined: 11-12-2002


    Message 9 of 53 (381717)
    02-01-2007 7:10 PM
    Reply to: Message 1 by Greatest I am
    01-30-2007 12:12 PM


    We sometimes see our prayers answered, sometimes not.
    As the old saying has it, "Pray into one hand and shit in the other, and see which one fills up first."

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 1 by Greatest I am, posted 01-30-2007 12:12 PM Greatest I am has not replied

      
    Doddy
    Member (Idle past 5931 days)
    Posts: 563
    From: Brisbane, Australia
    Joined: 01-04-2007


    Message 10 of 53 (381719)
    02-01-2007 7:18 PM
    Reply to: Message 5 by Greatest I am
    02-01-2007 5:10 PM


    Re: Good and evil
    The vast majority of us are living live that God would be happy with.
    Really?
    The majority of people worldwide don't believe that Jesus was divine. Would God be happy about that?
    Plus, I can give you a lot of verses in God's holy book, that shows He has another idea:
    • 2 Chron. 6:36: "If they sin against thee--for there is no man who does not sin--and thou art angry with them . "
    • Ecc. 7:20: "Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."
    • Rom. 3:10-12: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands, no one seeks for God. All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one."
    • Rom. 3:23: "since all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God"
    • Rom. 5:12: "Therefore as sin came into the world through one man and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all men sinned"
    • Rom. 5:18: "Then as one man's trespass led to condemnation for all men,"
    • 1 John 1:8-10: "If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."

    "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 5 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 5:10 PM Greatest I am has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 14 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 9:55 PM Doddy has replied

      
    Greatest I am
    Member (Idle past 295 days)
    Posts: 1676
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 11 of 53 (381760)
    02-01-2007 9:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 6 by Kader
    02-01-2007 6:01 PM


    Re: Good and evil
    God's main instructions to us included to go and reproduce and learn of good and evil.
    Population are up and per capita death is down as more people are searching for God.
    Life is good too God regardless of name.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 6 by Kader, posted 02-01-2007 6:01 PM Kader has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 12 by Taz, posted 02-01-2007 9:44 PM Greatest I am has replied

      
    Taz
    Member (Idle past 3313 days)
    Posts: 5069
    From: Zerus
    Joined: 07-18-2006


    Message 12 of 53 (381765)
    02-01-2007 9:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 11 by Greatest I am
    02-01-2007 9:37 PM


    Re: Good and evil
    GIA writes:
    Population are up...
    According to your logic, then, that Italy, Germany, Spain, and a lot of other European countries are going to hell. You do realize that their rate of population increase is in the negative, right?
    On the other hand, the non-christian dominated countries are the ones that have the highest rates of pop increase.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 11 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 9:37 PM Greatest I am has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 15 by Greatest I am, posted 02-01-2007 9:58 PM Taz has replied

      
    Greatest I am
    Member (Idle past 295 days)
    Posts: 1676
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 13 of 53 (381769)
    02-01-2007 9:46 PM
    Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
    02-01-2007 6:46 PM


    Re: Dualism
    I do not know if there was at one time a God of evil and a God of good. If there was they were gobbled up by the one true God. Jesus might know, not I.
    Lucifer a creation of God wears a name but is made of ideas and notions that are evil. He has no corporeal form and never did.
    God controls evil in the world in the same way He controls everything else, with Perfection.
    Regards
    DL

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 7 by Phat, posted 02-01-2007 6:46 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Greatest I am
    Member (Idle past 295 days)
    Posts: 1676
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 14 of 53 (381775)
    02-01-2007 9:55 PM
    Reply to: Message 10 by Doddy
    02-01-2007 7:18 PM


    Re: Good and evil
    I said nothing about the population believing in Jesus.
    I said God would be happy with their lifestyle.
    Thank you for the quotes, now lets return to the fact that more people do more good more of the time than on the evil side. As far as being born a sinner, I have had the opportunity to look upon the face of one of these young newborn sinners. Did not see a sin there.
    Regards
    DL

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 10 by Doddy, posted 02-01-2007 7:18 PM Doddy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 16 by Doddy, posted 02-01-2007 9:15 PM Greatest I am has replied

      
    Greatest I am
    Member (Idle past 295 days)
    Posts: 1676
    Joined: 01-24-2007


    Message 15 of 53 (381779)
    02-01-2007 9:58 PM
    Reply to: Message 12 by Taz
    02-01-2007 9:44 PM


    Re: Good and evil
    Overall populations are rising.
    More search God.
    Regards
    DL

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 12 by Taz, posted 02-01-2007 9:44 PM Taz has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 24 by Taz, posted 02-02-2007 12:06 AM Greatest I am has replied

      
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