Euthyprho's Dilemma Deflated

I did. I gave an explanation of morality that is grounded in people's intuitive understanding of right and wrong, and this explanation precluded it from being based on an objective basis.It is the objective moralists who are irrational. They fail to give a definition/explanation of morality that(1) corresponds to what people normally think of when they think about morality, and(2) is linked either by evidence or by clear logic based on agreed upon premises to some objective standard.- Thanks. If all you were going to do is suggest a reading list, you could have just done that and not wasted your time and ours with a lot of empty posts. Oh, that's right, you really just wanted to call people names. Well, good job on that!- This was amusing, seeing that it was immediately followed by an even more jumbled mess of a paragraph!-Great post, exactly what we have come to expect from you recently! Thumbs up!

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Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

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There isn't necessarily a relation of one to the other. One would have to demonstrate that such a relation exists first, then pose the question.

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Take it up with Plato.But if I may take a stab I'd say that he tacitly assumed there to be concensus amongst the God's wrt to piousness. So the different gods/different views argument wouldn't apply.But the pantheon was quite and eclectic bunch so I don't see how concensus could be reached, but that's the only way I can make sense of the question.

How do you define perfect ?Definitions of perfect on the Web:

being complete of its kind and without defect or blemish; "a perfect circle"; "a perfect reproduction"; "perfect happiness"; "perfect manners"; "a perfect specimen"; "a perfect day"

arrant(a): without qualification; used informally as (often pejorative) intensifiers; "an arrant fool"; "a complete coward"; "a consummate fool"; "a double-dyed villain"; "gross negligence"; "a perfect idiot"; "pure folly"; "what a sodding mess"; "stark staring mad"; "a thoroughgoing villain"; "utter nonsense"; "the unadulterated truth"

perfective: a tense of verbs used in describing action that has been completed (sometimes regarded as perfective aspect)

make perfect or complete; "perfect your French in Paris!"

precisely accurate or exact; "perfect timing"

...Calling you a "sad sap" was a light-hearted joke, but you deserve an apology.Other than that there is nothing to address from your post.

completeEdited by -messenjah of one, : Title

Ah. Sorry for the misunderstanding.- Okily dokily.

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Actually, if their god makes better pancakes, I'm totally switching sides. -- Charley the Australopithecine

But.. what is "a state of survival"?
-someone with no food or water for 3 days?
-someone with no food or water for 2.5 days?
-someone who's hungry?
-a man who has lost everything in a flood?
-a man who has lost everything when it was stolen from him?
-a man who has lost everything because he has a horrible memory?And why would morality not exist when anyone reaches this state (whatever it is) anyway?I would think that whatever decisions one makes, whenever they are made, they could be judged as good or bad.Some might say that stealing to feed yourself and your family is not wrong. Is this what you mean by "morality does not exist?" But what if the thief could have worked out some sort of non-monetary trade with the shop-keep? Who decides which thieves actually need to steal for food? So.. are "those among us" who would suffer this great harm more or less moral? But... morality doesn't exist at this point? What does it matter then? How does an absolute morality just stop existing? Wouldn't that mean it's not absolute at all? Ever?
What if someone is suffering and actually wants someone else to take their life because they are incapable of doing so?
What if the act of killing is the only act of defense to stop some perpetrator from doing some other heinous act?
What if the possibility of saving everyone isn't possible and someone has to decide who lives and dies in order to save some of the people? This doesn't make sense either.
What if a nation is bent on the whimsical destruction of everyone else? War against them is immoral?

If "Morality does not exist when people are reduced to a state of survival" then it is not an absolute.If -mess is right, he is wrong.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Everyone, Message 1 is looking at a specific argument. Please reread and adjust accordingly.This discussion is not about what is or is not moral or whether morality exists.Please don't turn this thread into the same old morality discussion.Please direct any comments concerning this Admin msg to the Moderation Thread.

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Any response in this thread will receive a 24 hour timeout.Thank you

Plainly true.But to get through the pedantic rhetoric and have him understand this is another matter.Or perhaps he just needs to use his words more carefully. I'm guessing that his thinking isn't translating into his writing very clearly. And I'd like to see if he can expand intelligently without insulting anyone.

Wrong guys.Morality doesn't exist when reduced to survival. This is not a condition. Morality is absolute. When reduced to survival one must act as an animal.

Must you drag all my threads into the gutter with poorly reasoned arguments?

"We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars."
-Oscar Wilde

The false dichotomy does not apply just to multiple gods, you could also have all four conditions with a singular god. To avoid it you need to show a link between pious and good. Without demonstration for such a link asserting only two of the cases apply begs the question as well. Kind of like trying to find consensus among people eh? Societies are essentially anarchies where different people agree to different rules for what they consider "civilized" behavior.This of course is why morality is relative ...Enjoy.

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RebelAAmericanOZen[Deist
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This of course is why morality is relative ...

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You wanna give your two cents with regard to my previous reply to Chiroptera? Especially the last paragraph?