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Author Topic:   Oh No, The New Awesome Primary Thread
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1486 of 1639 (785335)
06-02-2016 5:17 PM
Reply to: Message 1482 by Blue Jay
03-28-2016 6:22 PM


Coming into the final turn ...
So it appears that Trump has bombasted himself into the GOP nomination on nothing more substantial than blaming everyone else ... and is now begging for cash from the establishment types he ran against. Interesting to watch a scam artist in action, and how the rubes feel after being used (oreo Carson, and no more oreos Christie) ... while his lawsuit for scamming his "university" students goes forward.
Hillary has so much baggage and pretense to be progressive for the debates, but then turns to the GOP money bags and says she shares their values ... she won't reel in the banks because she has so much invested in the current system ($24 million income last year) ... and that pesky FBI investigation won't go away.
And another thing that won't go away is the Bernie REvolution gaining slowly in the back-stretch, but hard pushed by the establishment and the way they handicapped him. Tammany Hall politics all over again -- I think a lot of people are surprised and shocked by how corrupt and venal the Democrat Party is (and what a tool Debbie Wasserman-Schultz is).
So I'm thinking the Dems will snatch defeat from the jaws of victory because they want to preserve their status quo tushies and comforting perks.
Maybe I'll move to Spain.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1482 by Blue Jay, posted 03-28-2016 6:22 PM Blue Jay has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1487 by dronestar, posted 06-03-2016 10:14 AM RAZD has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


(1)
Message 1487 of 1639 (785366)
06-03-2016 10:14 AM
Reply to: Message 1486 by RAZD
06-02-2016 5:17 PM


Re: Coming into the final turn ...
Hey RAZD,
It's been several months since your last post, I was starting to get the DTs without my daily dose of RAZD.
The negative ratings of Hillary and Trump are through the roof, as they should be. I had hoped Bernie would respond to the Green Party's invitation to join them. I would like a Stein/Sanders ticket.
I would join you in Spain. Of all the countries I visited, none have the appetite for love, food, and life like the Spanish. Ever been to one of their festivals? I'd recommend The Fallas in Valencia.
Valencia Las Fallas Festival | Fallas Events & Fireworks | St Joseph Festival

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1486 by RAZD, posted 06-02-2016 5:17 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1488 by RAZD, posted 06-05-2016 9:30 AM dronestar has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 1488 of 1639 (785446)
06-05-2016 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 1487 by dronestar
06-03-2016 10:14 AM


Re: Coming into the final turn ...
This is probably Hillary's best chance to win president -- because the GOP have the worst candidate ever. And it looks like she would lose to him.
The media still counts the super-delegates to push the establishment narrative that she is "inevitable" - and have promised to "call" the election at 7pm eastern time (when New Jersey closes, but not counted?) well before California polls close (especially if there). are long lines ...
Total delegates so far — as of 06/03/16
Hillary 1771 - Bernie 1499
Delta 272 delegates
Going forward Bernie needs to win 527 of the remaining 781 pledge delegates (67.4% average) to tie Hillary at the convention. Which is entirely possible given the states that are left ...
while Hillary needs 612 (78.4% average) of the remaining pledge delegates to win without super-delegates. She will be lucky to get 50% in these remaining primaries, so it is now virtually inevitable that the democrat convention will be "brokered" by the super-delegates.
Those super-delegates will have to consider their own careers and the chances of them winning their next election with Hillary vs Sanders.
So NO it is not "over" - not by a long shot.
Of the remaining 9 primaries 4 are closed:
- Virgin Islands - 7 delegates,
- New Jersey - 126 delegates,
- New Mexico - 34 delegates,
- District of Columbia - 20 delegates,
Total 187 delegates
Assuming worst case 49.9% average for Bernie = 93 delegates to #SHillary = 94 delegates or 1 more
five are semi-closed primaries or open primaries
- Puerto Rico - 60 delegates, OPEN primary
- California - 475 delegates, semi-closed primary
- Montana - 21 delegates, OPEN primary
- North Dakota - 18 delegates, OPEN caucus
- South Dakota - 20 delegates, semi-closed primary
Total 594 delegates
... Bernie would then need ~436 or 74% on average to tie Hillary ... BUT
If the four (not closed) western states come in anywhere near previous western states it could be a landslide to victory.
- Idaho 23 delegate Open caucus Bernie 78.0%
- Utah 33 delegates Semi-open caucus Bernie 79.3%
- Washington 101 delegates Open caucus Bernie 72.7%
Also note that Alaska, closed caucus, was 79.3% for Bernie
Super-delegates should decide at the convention who they support based on who is more electable, who will help them win their elections and on who will bring more independent and new voters to the table to vote for (progressive) democrat candidates: Bernie wins on all counts so far.
Counting all the pledged delegates as allocated to date (24 May) for states with a democrat Cook PVI (partisan voting index) equal to or greater than zero, I get:
Hillary 826
Bernie 850 = more electable by 24 delegates (1.4%)
When you look at primaries that are open, semi-open or semi-closed -- primaries that more closely represent general election voters than do closed primaries, the results are even better for Bernie:
Hillary 397
Bernie 472 = more electable by 75 delegates (8.6%)
Even counting all the elected delegates for states with a democrat PVI equal to or greater than (-1 = R+1) I get:
Hillary 907
Bernie 912 = more electable by 5 delegates (0.3%)
And then looking at those primaries that are open, semi-open or semi-closed -- primaries that more closely represent general election voters than do closed primaries, the results are even better for Bernie:
Hillary 478
Bernie 534 = more electable by 56 delegates (5.5%)
... and to flip red states you will need an inspirational candidate that will get independent voters, new voters and cross-over voters to support them. Bernie wins all open primary\caucus states because he gets those votes 2 to 1 over Hillary = more electable.
We don't have to buy either book, because there IS a better alternative.
data source: wikipedia..../Democratic_Party_presidential_primaries,_2016#Schedule_and_results_of_primaries_and_caucuses

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1487 by dronestar, posted 06-03-2016 10:14 AM dronestar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1489 by Diomedes, posted 06-07-2016 11:15 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


Message 1489 of 1639 (785581)
06-07-2016 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1488 by RAZD
06-05-2016 9:30 AM


Clinton is presumptive nominee
Well, looks like they have made if official:
http://www.sunjournal.com/...s-be-democratic-nominee/1937869
Clinton now has the threshold of delegates.
I noticed that they called this late last night, the evening before the primaries on Tuesday. Since California is so close, I am wondering if that was intentional as a means to dissuade Sander's supporters from voting in their local primary if they feel the results are now moot.
Nonetheless, we appear to now have a center-right Democrat that placates to Goldman Sax versus a Crazy Orange Jack-o-lantern that wants to build thousands of miles of border fence and ban all Muslims from the USA.
Gotta love politics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1488 by RAZD, posted 06-05-2016 9:30 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1491 by NoNukes, posted 06-08-2016 2:08 PM Diomedes has replied

  
1.61803
Member (Idle past 1504 days)
Posts: 2928
From: Lone Star State USA
Joined: 02-19-2004


Message 1490 of 1639 (785646)
06-08-2016 1:48 PM


I think that about does it for Bernie. Barring a complete bomb from the Madams legal troubles or some bomb from the past Bernie has no further chance to win this primary. He would of made a great prez.
Hillary a bit to hawkish and too cozy with the illuminate. Ok maybe not the illuminate but you know what I mean.
Edited by 1.61803, : spellz

"You were not there for the beginning. You will not be there for the end. Your knowledge of what is going on can only be superficial and relative" William S. Burroughs

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1491 of 1639 (785650)
06-08-2016 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1489 by Diomedes
06-07-2016 11:15 AM


Re: Clinton is presumptive nominee
Since California is so close, I am wondering if that was intentional as a means to dissuade Sander's supporters from voting in their local primary if they feel the results are now moot.
Was California close? I did not see any polls suggesting that Bernie had a chance in California, and he ended up losing by double digits. And even a win in California would not have given Bernie much of a chance. It is probably the case that the announcement cost Bernies some support, but maybe those kind of things happen when you are 3 million votes short of what your opponent has managed.
Beyond that, is there really something nefarious about discussing the vote count once Hillary had the required number of delegates? Apparently the overwhelming majority all of the super delegates are on public record as to which candidate they support?
Nonetheless, we appear to now have a center-right Democrat that placates to Goldman Sax versus a Crazy Orange Jack-o-lantern that wants to build thousands of miles of border fence and ban all Muslims from the USA.
That is indeed unfortunate. I'll go with the center-right verses the loose cannon xeno.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1489 by Diomedes, posted 06-07-2016 11:15 AM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1492 by Diomedes, posted 06-08-2016 2:47 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 1494 by RAZD, posted 06-10-2016 1:15 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 995
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(3)
Message 1492 of 1639 (785657)
06-08-2016 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1491 by NoNukes
06-08-2016 2:08 PM


Re: Clinton is presumptive nominee
Was California close? I did not see any polls suggesting that Bernie had a chance in California, and he ended up losing by double digits
When last I viewed the aggregate polls on Real Clear Politics, it was closer in California. But nonetheless, still a stretch for Bernie. And he didn't have a chance in New Jersey.
I'll go with the center-right verses the loose cannon xeno
Agreed. That and I would prefer someone who is at least a seasoned politician versus a reality TV show character. Plus I need my president to be focused on policy matters and governing, versus getting into Twitter wars with every troll on the planet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1491 by NoNukes, posted 06-08-2016 2:08 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 1493 of 1639 (785718)
06-09-2016 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1492 by Diomedes
06-08-2016 2:47 PM


Re: Clinton is presumptive nominee
Diomedes writes:
a reality TV show character
I liked his TV show but I'd probably vote for Fred Flintstone before Trump.
I can't help but think of the Peter principle:
quote:
employees only stop being promoted once they can no longer perform effectively, and "managers rise to the level of their incompetence."
I think Trump may have peaked in season two.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1492 by Diomedes, posted 06-08-2016 2:47 PM Diomedes has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1494 of 1639 (785750)
06-10-2016 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1491 by NoNukes
06-08-2016 2:08 PM


Re: Clinton is presumptive nominee
Was California close?
Again, technically California is not over yet -- there are ~5 million mail-in votes that have yet to be counted, while the counted votes total a little over 3 million (and 18 million people were registered, 6 million in the last year). If something seems fishy, it is.
Beyond that, is there really something nefarious about discussing the vote count once Hillary had the required number of delegates?
She does NOT have a majority of the 4766 delegates with elected delegates, this is what I posted Wednesday morning on Facebook:
Total delegates so far — as of 06/09/16
Hillary 2205 (55%) - Bernie 1826 (45%) with 4031 of 4051 possible elected delegates. Delta 379 delegates (with 0 left to assign)
There is a lot of talk about coming together and how we much we need to unify so that we can beat Donald Trump in November. The question I have is why pick Hillary to be the standard bearer -- should we not consider ALL possible paths and choose the one most likely to succeed in November -- if that is truly the goal here.
Let me put this out here again: the super-delegates will pick the candidate in the July 25-28 convention, ... but independent voters will pick the president in the November election.
If the DNC (super-delegates) picks Hillary and she loses to Trump it will NOT be because of Bernie, it will be because they - the DNC and democrat establishment and the corporate media - picked a weaker candidate, one with less mass appeal and one who is seen by many - especially by independent voters - as part of the corrupt system\establishment problem instead of as part of a solution.
My feeling is that Hillary as candidate will *NOT* inspire people outside the DINO establishment core of the party to vote for her, that she *WILL* inspire MANY disillusioned republicans to come out and rally just to vote AGAINST her, that as a result she will *NOT* help retake the senate or other down-ticket positions ... Or that she will struggle to do so with such a WEAK majority that the Senate will be easily lost in the next off cycle election, in 2018, that the GOP will then gain a super-majority to completely control what she can do. Worse than what they did to Obama.
The people dividing the party are those that are using made up rules in state conventions and every rigging trick in the book to cheat and corrupt each primary election process so that the true views of the public are not shown or recorded. That isn't winning, that is stealing. The democrat party is now exposed as corrupted, conniving and venal in their attempt to install and crown Hillary as the candidate.
Unity is a two-way street.
So don't tell me that Sanders is dividing the party, he isn't, DWS, the Clinton Machine and the DNC are. Don't tell me that Sanders supporters will help elect Trump when they have been cast out by the party by corruption and discounted by media bias.
The PURPOSE of the Political REvolution is to fight corruption in politics, whether it is corruption by big money, PACs or corruption of the machinery of democracy. To ask supporters to vote for Hillary is asking them to condone the very corruption they have been campaigning against. That corruption is documented fact.
Now talk to me about who is truly the \BEST/ choice for presidential candidate.
Talk to me about which candidate can inspire more people to vote for them and for down-ticket candidates, who is a better choice for the PEOPLE, who brings out LARGE CROWDS of inspired people. Talk to me about which candidate is more electable ... this nomination WILL be decided by super-delegates in July, but the ELECTION will be decided by independent voters in November.
Super-delegates should decide at the convention who they support based on who is more electable in November, who brings out large crowds to campaign events, and on who will bring more independent and new voters to the table in November: Bernie wins on all counts so far.
In addition Bernie beats Trump by higher margins in every single head-to-head poll than Hillary (who actually loses several). If the DNC (super-delegates) picks Hillary, and she loses to Trump, it will NOT be because of Bernie, or dividing the party, it will be because *THEY* picked a weaker candidate with less mass appeal. Those people that would vote for Bernie but not Hillary would not have voted for her anyway, because they are independents, and because her willing condoning of corruption is antithetical to their beliefs.
If you truly want to beat Trump above all else, then Bernie Sanders is the rational choice for candidate.
Remember ...
INDEPENDENTS determine the November General Election.
It looks like the DNC and democrat establishment is determined to pick a weaker candidate.
And if incompetent DWS is still in charge she'll likely run a poor enough campaign to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.
Edited by RAZD, : corrected total delegates

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1491 by NoNukes, posted 06-08-2016 2:08 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1495 by dronestar, posted 06-10-2016 10:45 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 1496 by 14174dm, posted 06-10-2016 11:56 AM RAZD has replied
 Message 1497 by NoNukes, posted 06-10-2016 5:59 PM RAZD has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 1495 of 1639 (785769)
06-10-2016 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 1494 by RAZD
06-10-2016 1:15 AM


Champions of 1%ers are the presumptive nominees
RAZD writes:
If you truly want to beat Trump above all else, then Bernie Sanders is the rational choice for candidate.
Well, I am in agreement with most of your words, good job RAZD. But I would like you to consider that while the DNC would prefer Hillary over Trump, they would still rather have Trump over Bernie.
The Democrats may not be quite as bad as the Rebublicans, however, keep in mind Democrat policies ARE pro-corporatism/fascism and pro-military/hegemonic. "Portly-pantsuit-Hillary' IS a war-criminal and corporate-Wall-Street-whore who will CONTINUE to champion the rich 1%ers over the common 99%%ers. However, I believe Trump would still erratically champion for the rich, and Bernie would hurt the 1%ers.
Thus, the DNC do NOT want Bernie.
At this point, I am praying for one of two possible Hail Mary passes.
1. Clinton's email crime causes her to be indicted. What she has done was worse than heroic whistle-blower Chelsea/Bradley Manning who was convicted.
2. Bernie joins Jill Stein and the Green Party. The Independents vote them in. There is much rejoicing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1494 by RAZD, posted 06-10-2016 1:15 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1500 by RAZD, posted 06-15-2016 7:40 AM dronestar has not replied

  
14174dm
Member (Idle past 1109 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 1496 of 1639 (785774)
06-10-2016 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 1494 by RAZD
06-10-2016 1:15 AM


Re: Clinton is presumptive nominee
Curious about your affiliation graphic - are the numbers by voting style or by registration?
I tend to think of Independents as clumped into
True - vote based on individual candidates
Other party
Dem leaning
Rep leaning
I call myself Independent since no party really represents my positions on the full range of issues. I do tend to vote Dem since the Reps are so far from me on issues that really affect me or the country long term. Unfortunately the other parties get too few votes except in local elections.
So my point is that Independent may be misleading as some percentage will vote reliably for Dem or Rep or neither.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1494 by RAZD, posted 06-10-2016 1:15 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1501 by RAZD, posted 06-15-2016 8:09 AM 14174dm has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 1497 of 1639 (785782)
06-10-2016 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1494 by RAZD
06-10-2016 1:15 AM


Re: Clinton is presumptive nominee
She does NOT have a majority of the 4766 delegates with elected delegates, this is what I posted Wednesday morning on Facebook:
So what? The reality is that the super delegates do count. It is also the case that the current voting preferences for the overwhelming majority of those super delegates are public knowledge.
I understand that Bernie does not like that situation, but my question remains, why should the current standing of the candidates, including all pledged delegates not be reported? Or conversely, why is reporting that reality considered nefarious.
Or viewed yet another way, if Bernie is opposed to super delegates, why does it make sense to include that count in the number of required delegates that must be received? Deduct one half of the total super delegates from the total required. Has Hilary not exceeded that count?
So don't tell me that Sanders is dividing the party, he isn't, DWS, the Clinton Machine and the DNC are.
Either candidate can unify the party by conceding to the other side. To this point, Bernie's public support among those who participate in primaries lags behind that of Hilary. What you are suggesting is that the DNC should intervene despite that result.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1494 by RAZD, posted 06-10-2016 1:15 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1502 by RAZD, posted 06-15-2016 8:53 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(2)
Message 1498 of 1639 (785785)
06-11-2016 12:11 AM


Keep Bernie in the Senate (and spank the Donald hard)
I voted Bernie in the Minnesota caucus, and he did carry the state (and Donald came in 3rd in the Republican caucus) . I was and am, however, concerned about his age.
I think that Bernie did a valuable service by his POTUS run, bringing progressive issues forward, but now it's time to go back to the Senate where he's probably more valuable.
Elizabeth Warren's name is bouncing around, as either vice-president or a cabinet member. I feel that she too is more valuable in the Senate.
I love the Bern, but my impression is that the Bernie true believers, who seem inclined to go third party rather than Hillary, think that Bernie has magical powers to get his ideals implemented.
And I much agree that "moderate Republican" Hillary is better than loose cannon Donald (who might just be more liberal than Hillary). And Donald might be better that most or all of the other Republican offerings. But remember that I think Donald was running a comedy tour, not a political campaign. And I remember that some of the right here considered Al Franken to be a clown.
But I don't want Donald on my TV in a "reality" show, much less want him on TV as President.
I hope that Minnesota goes at least 75% Hillary.
OSLT.
Moose

Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham
"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith
"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien
"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 275
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 1499 of 1639 (785920)
06-13-2016 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1462 by Faith
03-20-2016 12:43 AM


Re: Islam's agenda
AAAaaaaaaaand...she's run away again.
Faith, you wither before reality. Every time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1462 by Faith, posted 03-20-2016 12:43 AM Faith has not replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1405 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 1500 of 1639 (786046)
06-15-2016 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1495 by dronestar
06-10-2016 10:45 AM


Re: Champions of 1%ers are the presumptive nominees
... "Portly-pantsuit-Hillary' IS a war-criminal and corporate-Wall-Street-whore who will CONTINUE to champion the rich 1%ers over the common 99%%ers. ...
Tell me how you really feel about #HiliaryChameleon ...
$Shillary will never prosecute wallstreet, nor will she support reforms that would cut into her money making {laundering} foundation ($24 million annual income {bribes} giving speeches?).
2. Bernie joins Jill Stein and the Green Party. The Independents vote them in. There is much rejoicing.
The good news is that a lot can happen between now and the convention, and that IF for example, Hillary gets indicted for racketeering or money laundering via the Clinton Foundation, then Bernie with super-delegates has enough delegates to become the nominee.
The bad news is that it is time to start with putting Plan B into action. At this point in the campaign there are several possible options to consider.
One option is that Bernie knuckles under, folds his tent and endorses Hillary. I seriously doubt that this will happen as it would mean abandoning the political revolution and abrogating his positions on critical elements of his campaign platform, things he has fought for over his whole career. This is only feasible if Hillary somehow "sees the light" and morphs into a true clone of Bernie -- instead of the pretend stance she took in the campaign. I think we can rule this option out.
A second option is for Bernie to run as an independent, either alone or in a coalition with the Working Families Party, Jill Stein and the Green Party etc. The problem here is election corruption, in BOTH parties, and that it would be virtually impossible for a third party to get elected with the establishment machinery of BOTH parties working to corrupt the elections (it was bad enough with one). I think Bernie is VERY aware of this reality (he said the system was rigged), and that this is why he chose to run inside the democrat party in the first place. It also opens a door for Trump, which he won't do, so we can probably rule this option out as well.
A third option is that Bernie steps back a bit, concedes defeat, and then works hard to promote progressive candidates for house and senate races and for state positions. He could still draw crowds to rallies and promote his agenda while doing this. There are many candidates that would welcome and benefit from this endorsement, and it could help to retake the senate and **maybe** the house (but doubtful with Hillary at the top of the ticket). This would also work to transform the party back to one that is for the people instead of corporations. I can see Bernie doing this because it too is part of the political revolution - to get more progressives in the congress in order to accomplish a more progressive agenda and to weed out the corporate corruption. Think of Elizabeth Warren as Senate Majority Leader (a more valuable position than VP) and have Bernie Sanders be the head of the Congressional Progressive Caucus and a part of Progressive Change Campaign Committee (BoldProgressives.org), and then the discussions between them and Hillary about appointments. Bernie could help make that a reality.
This then should be Plan B -- use the power of the political revolution to build the progressive base in the House and the Senate.
This petition is a start:
PETITION: The 2016 Democratic Party Platform Must Include Popular Progressive Priorities | Progressive Change Campaign Committee (PCCC)
... But I would like you to consider that while the DNC would prefer Hillary over Trump, they would still rather have Trump over Bernie.
Sure, because then they can blame Bernie for their loss
They want to use Bernie to get votes, and they need Bernie's army or they will lose the election. It will be interesting to see how far they bend.
But I believe it is Bernie's plan to reform the political landscape from within the Democrat party, much the way the Tea Poopers reformed the political landscape from within the Republican party. It is more practical and easier to accomplish reform by getting progressive reform candidates in by winning the primaries first than by trying to win the general election.
Especially when our election system defaults\degenerates to two candidates, and especially as long as the two major parties are allowed to corrupt the election process. Running as an independent would mean both parties rigging the system for you to lose.
Enjoy

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1495 by dronestar, posted 06-10-2016 10:45 AM dronestar has not replied

  
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