Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   The Bible of Jesus?
autumnman
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 61 of 68 (481815)
09-12-2008 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by ramoss
09-12-2008 3:36 PM


Re: Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
ramoss states (and I think it deserves repeating):
I would say that all that the use of Luke quote means is not that Jesus quoted the Septuagint or not, but that the author of Luke did.
I agree!
Regards,
AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by ramoss, posted 09-12-2008 3:36 PM ramoss has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 62 of 68 (481833)
09-12-2008 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by autumnman
09-12-2008 3:30 PM


Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
autumnman writes:
the Septuagint is a phonetic, Alexandrian Greek translation of the Kethib {non-vocalized} Hebrew Scriptures. And just because the Kethib {non-vocalized} Hebrew Scriptures from which the phonetic, Alexandrian Greek translation was made no longer exist does not mean that the phonetic, Alexandrian Greek translation was rendered in an accurate manner.
The only thing “non-vocalized” about the Hebrew text was the Tetragrammaton and that became the case some long time after it was first written.
The difference between Qere and Ketiv is simply this: Ketiv (or Kethib) is the traditional, ancient, way of writing Hebrew - without vowel markings. This is how the ancient texts have come down and the way they are transcribed for public reading of the Torah.
The Qere: Hebrew written with vowel markings, is a Masoretic interpretive tool dating from the ninth and tenth centuries.
. the LXX version appears to be a toned-down version of Isaiah 61:1 & 2. .
Had the LXX translation of Isaiah 61:1 intended to be more accurate the translation . could be seen by Hellenic overlords as words that could insight upheaval and revolt among the Jews.
As if there were no other inflammatory passages in the Bible?
Therefore, the translators of the LXX were instructed to replace such inflammatory language .
As if the men who wrote Hebrew scriptures had no Assyrian, Babylonian, or Persian “overlords” to fear?
That is my view of why the LXX version of the Hebrew Scriptures is so dramatically different than the Hebrew MT version.
Is this why you have a low opinion of the Septuagint? Because you think God couldn’t get his message past “Hellenic” censors?
And it is my opinion that if Jesus of Nazareth were going to make a really solid point, he would have read the Hebrew version of Isaiah 61:1 & 2 and not the Septuagint version.
And maybe he preferred the Septuagint.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by autumnman, posted 09-12-2008 3:30 PM autumnman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by autumnman, posted 09-28-2008 2:08 PM doctrbill has replied

  
gluadys
Member (Idle past 4962 days)
Posts: 57
From: Canada
Joined: 08-22-2008


Message 63 of 68 (482134)
09-14-2008 11:45 PM


The Aramaic Church
I came across this interesting viewpoint today. The suggestion is that all the gospels were first written in Aramaic.
TheologyWeb Campus
The link is for information only. I haven't the relevant background to debate it, but I thought it an appropriate footnote to this thread.

  
autumnman
Member (Idle past 5013 days)
Posts: 621
From: Colorado
Joined: 02-24-2008


Message 64 of 68 (484425)
09-28-2008 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by doctrbill
09-12-2008 9:47 PM


Re: Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
doctrbill
In his book The Alphabet Effect on page 38, Robert K. Logan states, “Reading a script” [with] ”no provisions for vowels or vocalization’ “correctly was a matter of good guesswork guided by context.”
Furthermore,
All of the letters of the Hebrew writing system are “consonants”, according to Ben-Yehuda’s Hebrew-English Dictionary, pg. iii.
In The Jewish Publication Society’s Torah Commentary-Genesis, on page xvii, Professor Sarna states, “For nearly two millennia and a half...Jewish intellectual and spiritual history may be said to be essentially the record of the variegated attempts to unfold the sense, meanings, purposes, intents and applications of the biblical texts.”
Why has there been two thousand five hundred years of attempts to unfold the sense, meanings, purposes, intents and applications of the Kethib {consonantal} biblical texts?. Because to read a Kethib text that has no provisions for vowels or vocalization correctly is a matter of guesswork before a context can even be established.
I apologize for not replying sooner, but I am in the midst of harvest and have very little time to spend on the computer.
Regards,
Autumnman

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by doctrbill, posted 09-12-2008 9:47 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by doctrbill, posted 10-06-2008 4:57 PM autumnman has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2764 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 65 of 68 (485262)
10-06-2008 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by autumnman
09-28-2008 2:08 PM


Jesus Quotes the Septuagint
Autumnman,
Thank you for the information. You're not the only one slow to respond.
From your post:
quote:
In The Jewish Publication Society’s Torah Commentary-Genesis, on page xvii, Professor Sarna states, “For nearly two millennia and a half...Jewish intellectual and spiritual history may be said to be essentially the record of the variegated attempts to unfold the sense, meanings, purposes, intents and applications of the biblical texts.”
Jews are not the only ones who are struggling to find meaning and context in the Bible.
I have spent the past three days comparing 22 versions in five languages, including the classics (LXX, Vulgate & Tanach). I wanted to see how much variety of translation is associated with a handfull of ancient words; all of which have been "translated" by our word: "earth." In the course of this little Bible Study, I have observed a change in how translators have dealt with this word subsequent to the Copernican heresy and again after the dawn of the Space Age. This finding fits well with other evidences of Bible tweaking by persons with a vested interest in the business of religion. And, it does not bode well for those who wish to argue anything of "global" import from the Bible. This includes the Creation, the Flood, the Gospel Commission, and the bit about inheriting "the earth." Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you take all that away there's not much left for believers to get head-up about.
So what's new? Nothing really. I merely wish to multiply the weight of evidence in anticipation of a tipping point at which that silly load of bull will slide out of the American conscience and leave us feeling lighter, stronger, and ready to become citizens of the real "Earth."
Edited by doctrbill, : No reason given.

Theology is the science of Dominion.
- - - My God is your god's Boss - - -

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by autumnman, posted 09-28-2008 2:08 PM autumnman has not replied

  
Creationist
Member (Idle past 5646 days)
Posts: 95
Joined: 10-19-2007


Message 66 of 68 (485856)
10-12-2008 1:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by doctrbill
08-18-2008 9:55 AM


Septuagint?
Is there really any proof that it really existed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by doctrbill, posted 08-18-2008 9:55 AM doctrbill has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Stevie, posted 10-17-2008 10:07 AM Creationist has not replied

  
Stevie
Member (Idle past 5641 days)
Posts: 32
From: Arlington Heights, IL
Joined: 10-16-2008


Message 67 of 68 (486233)
10-17-2008 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Creationist
10-12-2008 1:59 PM


Re: Septuagint?
Hi, I'm really God, please visit my New Topic about how the universe really works.
love and hugs!
Steven Joseph Christopher
Arlington heights, IL

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Creationist, posted 10-12-2008 1:59 PM Creationist has not replied

  
!_! 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5624 days)
Posts: 6
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 68 of 68 (486577)
10-22-2008 4:10 PM


Edited by AdminModulous, : user posted this same post in multiple places at the same time. Text hidden, user suspended.

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024