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Author Topic:   The Role of the "Observer" in Evolution
no1nose
Junior Member (Idle past 5766 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 06-11-2008


Message 1 of 4 (473224)
06-27-2008 7:18 PM


I think life does change but on the basis of consciousness and not random mutations and not into new species. The key to us understanding change in the world around us the role of what is called the observer. The “observer” influences and determines the outcome of changes in events from quantum to macro social. It was Niels Bohr who championed this concept in the 1930’s when the meaning of quantum mechanics was being hotly debated by the top thinkers of that time
At the heart of quantum theory is Bohr’s concept of complementarity. This he made great pains to point out can apply to macro systems. Bohr I believe was the first to point out that Margaret Mead’s “Coming of Age in Samoa” was a case of “observer created reality”. In the case of evolution it is the slowness of the process that gives the illusion that there can be an objective observer (observers are never objective but always influence the outcome). This then leads one to self-fulfilling observations rather than any so called objective reality.
A recent book, Faust in Copenhagen: A Struggle for the Soul of Physics by Gino Segr (Viking, 310 pp., $25.95) review:
"But Bohr in 1932 proposed to extend the idea of complementarity to biology, suggesting that the description of a living creature as an organism and the description of it as a collection of molecules are also complementary. In this context, complementarity would mean that any attempt to observe and localize precisely every molecule in a living creature would result in the death of the organism. The holistic view of a creature as a living organism and the reductionist view of it as a collection of molecules would be both correct but mutually exclusive. .
Since then I don't think anyone has got their head around Bohr's ideas and responded in a sensible way.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2008 10:59 PM no1nose has replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 2 of 4 (473787)
07-02-2008 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by no1nose
06-27-2008 7:18 PM


Suggest trimming things down
Sorry - This proposed topic got put on the back burner and then got rather forgotten.
How about trimming your opening message to just the one paragraph?
At the heart of quantum theory is Bohr’s concept of complementarity. This he made great pains to point out can apply to macro systems. Bohr I believe was the first to point out that Margaret Mead’s “Coming of Age in Samoa” was a case of “observer created reality”. In the case of evolution it is the slowness of the process that gives the illusion that there can be an objective observer (observers are never objective but always influence the outcome). This then leads one to self-fulfilling observations rather than any so called objective reality.
If such is agreeable to you, post that paragraph as a new message in this topic. We can then turn that new message into message 1 of the new open to general debate topic, and then go from there.
This would seem to be an "Is It Science?" type topic.
Adminnemooseus

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by no1nose, posted 06-27-2008 7:18 PM no1nose has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by no1nose, posted 07-03-2008 12:36 AM Adminnemooseus has not replied

no1nose
Junior Member (Idle past 5766 days)
Posts: 29
Joined: 06-11-2008


Message 3 of 4 (473804)
07-03-2008 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
07-02-2008 10:59 PM


Re: Suggest trimming things down
cool sounds ok

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 07-02-2008 10:59 PM Adminnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 07-03-2008 7:42 AM no1nose has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 13014
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 4 of 4 (473831)
07-03-2008 7:42 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by no1nose
07-03-2008 12:36 AM


Re: Suggest trimming things down
What Adminnemooseus meant when he said to "post that paragraph as a new message in this topic," was that you should post that paragraph as a new message in this topic.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by no1nose, posted 07-03-2008 12:36 AM no1nose has not replied

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