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Author | Topic: Evolution. We Have The Fossils. We Win. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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I've given the evidence for a young earth many many times, both geological and biological. The same evidence is given in the film we're talking about. I have no doubts whatever that the earth is young.
There are many kinds of evidence, including false evidence.
The only actual evidence for billions of years is radiometric dating and as I said that can't be confirmed because you'd need an independent witness in that ancient past and it doesn't exist.
According to whom? I have never heard of this requirement for evidence.
Creationists no doubt get carried away with bad arguments but that doesn't make them liars.
Probably some are true believers. It seems that some people are easily deluded.
God is the author of the Bible. An honest calculation of the times given in the Bible shows a young earth. Evolution is a total contradiction with the Bible in terms of time and in other ways, such as that it contradicts the fact that there was no death until the Fall. And the billions of years (I was talking about the millions per time period) are just nonsensical from simple observation of the physical facts.
What physical facts? Saying that there are physical facts is not evidence.
In seventeen million years, the supposed age of Grand Canyon, there would be no canyon left, it would all be eroded away.
This is not a fact. Where do you get your information? This sounds like an opinion, which is NOT evidence.
The idea that different kinds of sedimentary rocks represent different time periods of millions of years is laughable.
Being laughable to you does not comprise evidence.
The very abundance of fossils, which require specific conditions to form, is proof against your millions/billions of years and evidence for rapid deposition.
We have been over this many times, Faith. Rapid processes do not indicate a young earth.
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edge Member (Idle past 1732 days) Posts: 4696 From: Colorado, USA Joined:
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A lot of my "blithering nonsense" is well expressed in the film supposedly being discussed here, which shows that I'm in tune with the others who share my paradigm.
And it's still 'blithering nonsense'.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
In seventeen million years, the supposed age of Grand Canyon, there would be no canyon left, it would all be eroded away. This is not a fact. Where do you get your information? This sounds like an opinion, which is NOT evidence. I'm thinking of slope retreat. I know Percy put up some numbrs a while back but I like to start from scratch. If all the slope/wall surfaces in the Grand Canyon were retreating at say a quarter inch in a hundred years, a pretty conservative guess wouldn't you think? that would be an inch in four hundred years which would be about 42,500 inches in seventeen million years or roughly 3500 feet of retreat of all the walls in the canyon. If all the slopes retreat by 3500 feet, wouldn't you have at most just piles of debris left after 17 million years, at least for all the formations within the canyon? The outer walls could still be in layers (maybe: the upper surface would have eroded quite a bit too) but pushed back over half a mile on both sides. With nothing but debris between them. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Slope retreat would explain the width of the Canyon. The average width is 10 miles. More than 50,000 feet. So no, your argument obviously doesn’t make sense.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
We have been over this many times, Faith. Rapid processes do not indicate a young earth. Um, if the geologic column was laid down in a matter of hours or days or weeks at the most, rather than billions of years, you'd have to give up your billions of yers for the age of the earth. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Slope retreat would demolish all the island type formations within the canyon where it is widest, as well as pushing back the outer walls, and lowering the height of the walls too.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2132 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
Um, if the geologic column was laid down in a matter of hours or days or weeks at the most, rather than billions of years, you'd have to give up your billions of yers for the age of the earth. The contrary should also be true. If the geologic column was laid down in a matter of millions to billions of years, you'd have to give up your YEC claims. But you won't accept any evidence that shows an old earth. So don't lecture us about evidence.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1051 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Slope retreat would demolish all the island type formations within the canyon where it is widest, as well as pushing back the outer walls, and lowering the height of the walls too. At its widest point, the canyon is 27 times as wide as you estimate it should be after 17 million years. Not that this really means anything, since the 'estimate' just seems to be a number you made up.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: I don’t see why it should. If the island was sufficiently large or resistant, why couldn’t it survive ?
quote: I don’t think it should lower the walls directly - other erosive forces might do that, or if the land gets lower further away from the centre of the Canyon. Slope retreat is essentially widening the Canyon. And you are on record as saying that it is too wide to be accounted for by the conventional explanation, so I think you need to actually get some real figures rather than making contradictory guesses.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
At its widest point, the canyon is 27 times as wide as you estimate it should be after 17 million years. Not that this really means anything, since the 'estimate' just seems to be a number you made up. At that rate it would certainly be long gone in seventeen million years. But of course I think the canyon was cut by the retreating Flood waters and sometimes I get the paradigms mixed up, so I just added the 3500 feet feet to what exists now. Oh well.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
All the slopes are eroding. That's clear from the talus at the bottom of all of them. We don't have a broad plain between the walls of the canyon, we have layered formations with talus at their feet.
Yes it's too wide to have been cut by the river. But slope retreat is an ongoing process since it was formed. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: That really doesn’t make sense. The rate calculated based on the current size and 17 million years will show the Canyon as it is now after 17 million years. Obviously it has to.
quote: That is a pretty obvious mistake. Maybe if you tried critical thinking you might manage to avoid a repeat.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
But you won't accept any evidence that shows an old earth. There is none besides your radiometric dating. All the evidence of the way the strata were formed, their flatness and lack of erosion between formations, and the evidence that layers can form in a matter of hours, as shown by Mt. St. Helens and flume experiments, etc etc etc, all show rapid deposition. The oldest your evidence can suggest is maybe ten thousand years, but there is no evidence for billions in the actual physical form of the strata or any other physical facts. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: Which is why the Canyon is so wide.
quote: I guess we have another falsification if the Young Earth. Since the Canyon was clearly cut by the river rather than retreating flood waters (as has already been shown) we need a considerable amount of slope retreat to explain the width.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17827 Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
quote: What about the evidence of massive erosion between formations ?
quote: Ah, you pretend it doesn’t exist. Point to Coyote.
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