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Author Topic:   Why is sin heritable?
AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 136 of 139 (565479)
06-17-2010 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Peg
06-17-2010 12:07 AM


Topic Please
The topic concerns whether sin is heritable.
The topic does not concern the penalty, the fall, or Satan. If these are necessary when making a point of whether sin is heritable or not, then please make that connection clear. Right now I'm not seeing the connection.
Thanks
AdminPD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Peg, posted 06-17-2010 12:07 AM Peg has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 137 of 139 (565500)
06-17-2010 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by ICANT
06-16-2010 3:58 PM


Re: Perfect Man
Why do you assume the man that could name all the animals was so dumb as to not know what God was talking about.
Read the story. They didn't know right from wrong before they ate of the fruit.
quote:
God imparted man's desires (because they didn't create themselves).
Man acquired those desires when he disobeyed the one command given to him.
I want you to read both statements and then think about that real carefully.
If there was no tree there would be no choice.
Why was there a choice at all? Ah, obviously it serves the purpose of tempting.
The penalty existed before the eating of the fruit as it existed after the eating of the fruit.
Read the story again, ICANT. It very clearly says that the tree was the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil, and that as SOON as they ate, their eyes were open, KNOWING right from wrong. That's as plain as day.
That man could choose to eat the fruit or choose not to eat the fruit. Knowing if he ate the fruit he would die.
The Book of Romans says that death entered the world because of their sin. That means God's perfect world didn't include death unless they ate of the fruit. So not only did they have no concept of right and wrong, they also didn't have a concept of death.
What a raw deal, not just for them, but we as well.
God did not cause Satan to enter the serpent and tempt Eve.
The fuck he didn't! Stop making God out to be some bystander. God, the Creator of the universe and ALL that is in it, made Satan, knew he was evil, and allowed him access to the world's two most naive human beings on the planet. That makes God just as complicit as Satan himself.
But regadless of that temptation the man who was commanded to not eat the fruit was not tempted by anyone. The woman gave him the fruit and he chose to eat it. He could have obeyed God instead.
What don't you understand about this? He did not know that disobeying was wrong. Read. the. story. I don't care how many ways you say that he chose to be disobedient. He didn't. God gave him his desires, God planted that tree in their path knowing they'd take the bait, God gave the Serpent unlimited access, etc.
This man was no baby. He had the ability to name all living creatures so he was smarter than a fifth grader or Hyroglyphx.
Naming animals means you understand right from wrong? You do know that intelligence and ignorance do not reflect upon one another, right? I could have the highest IQ ever recorded and still be ignorant about geology or cosmology.
He did just like people today. The man blamed God because God had given him the woman who blamed who blamed the snake because Satan had spoke through him.
God was to blame, and no one else, as far as I am concerned with, based solely on the bible.
The snake is the only one that got a raw deal. He lost his legs and has to crawl on his belly eating dust all his life. And there is no way he could keep Statan from speaking through him.
No, I would say the fact that we all suffer and die as the result of Adam and Eve makes us all get the short end of the stick.
The cause of sin has no bearing on whether sin is inheritable or not.
I don't know if it is inherited or not, but the bible has contradictory answers on whether or not we pay for the sins of the father. Looking at the A & E story, it would certainly appear that we inherited it since no human has ever abstained from sin. A perfect track record of sin in over a trillion people on the planets existence reasonably leads to the conclusion that God gives us the desire to sin. I mean, we didn't make ourselves.
quote:
The soul who sins is the one who will die. The son will not share the guilt of the father, nor will the father share the guilt of the son. -- Ezekiel 18:20
quote:
Yet he does not leave the guilty unpunished; he punishes the children and their children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation. -- Exodus 34:7
If you take the infallible bible position, this is a real humdinger!

"Men never do evil so completely and cheerfully as when they do it from mistaken conviction." — Blaise Pascal

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by ICANT, posted 06-16-2010 3:58 PM ICANT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by purpledawn, posted 06-17-2010 7:58 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 139 by ICANT, posted 06-18-2010 1:30 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 138 of 139 (565551)
06-17-2010 7:58 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Hyroglyphx
06-17-2010 12:17 PM


Abstain From Sin
quote:
Looking at the A & E story, it would certainly appear that we inherited it since no human has ever abstained from sin.
Your evidence for that statement?
Don't use a quote from the Bible that says all have sinned, because that only takes us up to the point when the line was written. There were righteous people in the Bible besides Jesus.
Deuteronomy 30
15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;
16 In that I command thee this day to love Adonai thy G-d, to walk in His Ways, and to keep His Commandments and His Statutes and His Judgments, that thou may live and multiply: and Adonai thy G-d shall bless thee in the land whither thou go to possess it.
17 But if your heart turn away, so that thou wilt not hear, but shall be drawn away, and worship other gods, and serve them;
18 I denounce unto you this day, that ye shall surely perish, and that ye shall not prolong your days upon the land, whither thou passes over Jordan to go to possess it.
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
We are capable of following the rules.
Please show that "sin" is something that can actually be inherited and how it is inherited. Does one inherit disobedience or does one inherit a disobedient nature?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-17-2010 12:17 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
ICANT
Member
Posts: 6769
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 139 of 139 (565564)
06-18-2010 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Hyroglyphx
06-17-2010 12:17 PM


Re: Perfect Man
Hi Hyro,
Hyroglyphx writes:
Read the story. They didn't know right from wrong before they ate of the fruit.
Where does it say they didn't know right from wrong?
There is a difference in knowing right from wrong and knowing good and evil.
They knew good but they did not know evil until the man disobeyed the command given by God.
Hyroglyhx writes:
Read the story again, ICANT. It very clearly says that the tree was the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil, and that as SOON as they ate, their eyes were open, KNOWING right from wrong. That's as plain as day.
Well that is not what the text says, it actually says:
Moses writes:
Genesis 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
Because of that disobedience God drove them out of His presence and His garden.
Because of that sin they had to die that day which they did.
The penalty of that disobedience still exists. Mankind dies.
Mankind is separated from God.
So you don't inherit sin or the penalty for sin which is death. It is a fact.
It is a fact mankind is separated from God.
It is also a fact God made a way man could escape and be reunited with God.
God Bless,

"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-17-2010 12:17 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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