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Author Topic:   Liberals, PC Police and Big Business
Taq
Member
Posts: 9972
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.5


(2)
Message 31 of 91 (686654)
01-02-2013 6:09 PM


Human Nature
I think there are two things acting in these cases.
1. Famous people. For whatever reason, we now like to see famous people topple from their pedestals. The more famous they are, the more we want to see them fall. These PC scandals are just an extension of the same trend that involves cell phone hacks, sex tape scandals, and the nitty-gritty of divorce proceedings.
2. Hypersensitivity after the Civil Rights movement. Telling jokes is one thing. Jokes, by their very nature, are ways of conveying uncomfortable beliefs in a more socially acceptable fashion. What we don't want to see is people using their position to dehumanize others. This is even truer in this generation where people are trying to distance themselves from the overt racism and bigotry in past generations. We are only 50 years beyond Jim Crow laws, let's not forget. Racism is still an open wound in this country, and it will take time to heal.

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ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 32 of 91 (686722)
01-03-2013 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Taq
01-02-2013 6:09 PM


Re: Human Nature
Taq writes:
What we don't want to see is people using their position to dehumanize others.
That's it exactly. You can make a joke about how stupid black people are or you can make a similar joke about how stupid racism is. Unfortunately, the difference is too subtle for some people to comprehend.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Taq, posted 01-02-2013 6:09 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 01-03-2013 1:29 PM ringo has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 91 (686729)
01-03-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by onifre
01-02-2013 12:21 PM


Just that sueing Oprah is ridiculous
I think that lesson cuts both ways. It's just as silly to complain about someone's blog as it is to complain about Oprah not liking cheese burgers anymore.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by onifre, posted 01-02-2013 12:21 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by onifre, posted 01-04-2013 1:27 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 34 of 91 (686730)
01-03-2013 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by ringo
01-03-2013 11:39 AM


Re: Human Nature
That's it exactly. You can make a joke about how stupid black people are or you can make a similar joke about how stupid racism is. Unfortunately, the difference is too subtle for some people to comprehend.
Well the difference might not just be subtle, it may depend on how much we trust the speaker. For example, I thought the bus wreck example was pretty clearly a joke about racism (at least the version you told was). It's much tougher to dig out that same kind of social commentary from the version Oni prefers. And I still don't see how a poster of Obama as a baby monkey being bottle fed by Ronald Reagan is some kind of commentary on racism.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by ringo, posted 01-03-2013 11:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ringo, posted 01-04-2013 11:41 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 35 of 91 (686756)
01-03-2013 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by ringo
01-02-2013 12:03 PM


Re: Racist Joke
To me, it seems more appropriate when it's making fun of us white folks.
I don't want to start a thing, but you understand that's because of privilege, right?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by ringo, posted 01-02-2013 12:03 PM ringo has replied

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NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 91 (686766)
01-03-2013 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by ringo
01-02-2013 12:37 PM


Re: Racist Joke
n a joke, all things are possible.
Do you think that having talking dead people makes sense in the context of this joke? I think it would remove the ironical aspect.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by ringo, posted 01-02-2013 12:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 01-04-2013 11:49 AM NoNukes has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 37 of 91 (686820)
01-04-2013 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by NoNukes
01-03-2013 1:29 PM


Re: Human Nature
NoNukes writes:
And I still don't see how a poster of Obama as a baby monkey being bottle fed by Ronald Reagan is some kind of commentary on racism.
I didn't see it as any kind of commentary. I just saw it as funny.
Racism is natural and so is humour. We should resist the natural urge to be racist but I don't think it's healthy to resist the natural urge to laugh.

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 Message 34 by NoNukes, posted 01-03-2013 1:29 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 38 of 91 (686821)
01-04-2013 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by crashfrog
01-03-2013 3:48 PM


Re: Racist Joke
crashfrog writes:
ringo writes:
To me, it seems more appropriate when it's making fun of us white folks.
I don't want to start a thing, but you understand that's because of privilege, right?
Yes, it's more appropriate to laugh at the privileged than the underpriviledged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by crashfrog, posted 01-03-2013 3:48 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 39 of 91 (686823)
01-04-2013 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by NoNukes
01-03-2013 5:04 PM


Re: Racist Joke
NoNukes writes:
Do you think that having talking dead people makes sense in the context of this joke?
I don't think jokes have to make sense. The absurdity is what's funny.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by NoNukes, posted 01-03-2013 5:04 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by NoNukes, posted 01-04-2013 1:35 PM ringo has replied

  
dronestar
Member
Posts: 1407
From: usa
Joined: 11-19-2008


Message 40 of 91 (686829)
01-04-2013 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by onifre
12-31-2012 5:19 PM


What about 'political humor'?
Oni writes:
any one who gets offended is a "weak" person. Now I don't think I agree with that, but then again I really don't understand what "being offended" is. I guess my "line" for being offended is almost non-existent. I don't think I can get offended
Hey Oni,
I think the juxtaposition of two ideas, told with impeccable timing, could lead me to laugh at anything. If you're a fan of "Family Guy" you probably also found yourself laughing at SOME very inappropriate jokes. However, even I seem to have limits . . .
I am unsure if the following is on-topic or not. It is a series of "jokes" told by Bush Jr. at the annual Radio and Television Correspondents Dinner that I found to be the most offensive jokes ever publicly told in history. Yet the crowd seemed to enjoy them immensely:
‪W. Bush jokes about weapons of mass destruction‬
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nb8Onp_s3g
Since Bush Jr. isn't a professional comedian [insert snarky remark here], then perhaps this is outside of your thread's topic. However, if on-topic . . .
Since people DID laugh, you can't really brush away the jokes as not funny or poorly constructed. Because many people DID laugh, do you think your friend could correctly label me a "weak" person for being offended? Am I a hypocrite for finding some humor offensive and not others? Lastly, does the Mortgage Debt Relief Act of 2007 which generally allows taxpayers to exclude income from the discharge of debt on their principal residence ALSO apply to property I own in an unincorporated territory of the United States such as Puerto Rico?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by onifre, posted 12-31-2012 5:19 PM onifre has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by onifre, posted 01-04-2013 1:38 PM dronestar has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 41 of 91 (686832)
01-04-2013 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Tempe 12ft Chicken
01-02-2013 3:07 PM


However, shouldn't Aflac be the one that the Public is outraged at?
Was the "public" outraged though? Or did the outrage come from some other source, like possibly advertisers?
When is the "public" ever outraged? Who's "the public" anyway?
It may be that comics should start requesting clauses in contracts protecting them from any behavior that could be expected from watching previous acts they have done.
Yeah that might be something to look into. It's hard enough to police the room for people filming your act. If a comic is just working a bit out, and it's far from ready or the comic is exploring different punchlines, etc., and the video makes it on youtube it makes the comic look like shit.
- Oni

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 Message 29 by Tempe 12ft Chicken, posted 01-02-2013 3:07 PM Tempe 12ft Chicken has not replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 42 of 91 (686833)
01-04-2013 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by subbie
01-02-2013 4:20 PM


But one thing it isn't, one thing it cannot be, is an infringement on free speech rights. That's my only point.
Ok. I agree. But my friend's complaint was that by being offended and us having to change what we say, it infringes on our freedom of speech.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by subbie, posted 01-02-2013 4:20 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by subbie, posted 01-04-2013 3:13 PM onifre has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 43 of 91 (686834)
01-04-2013 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by NoNukes
01-03-2013 1:22 PM


It's just as silly to complain about someone's blog as it is to complain about Oprah not liking cheese burgers anymore.
But no one is complain about the blog, what we're complaining about is the media reaction to one bloggers claiming to have been offended.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by NoNukes, posted 01-03-2013 1:22 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by NoNukes, posted 01-04-2013 1:44 PM onifre has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 91 (686836)
01-04-2013 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by ringo
01-04-2013 11:49 AM


Re: Racist Joke
I don't think jokes have to make sense. The absurdity is what's funny.
Yes. But coming back to life is not the absurdity suggested in this particular joke. The absurdity is the expression by the policeman that white or black people could lie about being alive.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.
If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by ringo, posted 01-04-2013 11:49 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by ringo, posted 01-05-2013 12:46 PM NoNukes has replied

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2951 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


Message 45 of 91 (686837)
01-04-2013 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by dronestar
01-04-2013 1:07 PM


Re: What about 'political humor'?
However, if on-topic . . .
Hey Drone,
It's on topic, and a good point too. Other people reading jokes comics wrote, that aren't their own ideas and thoughts, but getting shit for it.
Since people DID laugh, you can't really brush away the jokes as not funny or poorly constructed. Because many people DID laugh, do you think your friend could correctly label me a "weak" person for being offended?
Yes, What are you offended at? The jokes or Bush making jokes about it?
Maybe you dislike Bush (Maybe? hahaha) and are finding a way to hate him more, so you select the jokes he told, label them offensive, then you can be angry again at something Bush did. Does that make sense?
Am I a hypocrite for finding some humor offensive and not others?
I wouldn't say hypocrite, I think instead you're just projecting your dislike of Bush onto anything you can find.
Like with someone who gets offended at a rape joke. Is it the joke they dislike, or have they experienced being raped, know someone who has been, and are projecting their anger of that onto the joke and the comic who told it?
Lastly, does the Mortgage Debt Relief Act of 2007 which generally allows taxpayers to exclude income from the discharge of debt on their principal residence ALSO apply to property I own in an unincorporated territory of the United States such as Puerto Rico?
That was funny. And I liked that you used the rule of 3.
- Oni

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by dronestar, posted 01-04-2013 1:07 PM dronestar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by NoNukes, posted 01-04-2013 1:49 PM onifre has replied
 Message 50 by dronestar, posted 01-04-2013 2:10 PM onifre has replied

  
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