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Author | Topic: PC Gone Too Far | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It's on private property, but still. I think that is an important distinction. Meh, people are bitching about how offended they are by the sight of these statues, and the property they're on can't really affect that much if they're in sight.
It is certainly understandable that someone may protest against a statue of intolerant dictator who set up a horrible totalitarian regime. That they're not is what is telling
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Meh, people are bitching about how offended they are by the sight of these statues, and the property they're on can't really affect that much if they're in sight. The context of this discussion suggests otherwise. The original example is about folks complaining about a statue on their college campus, the statues in New Orleans are right in the middle of town. Yeah, location does matter. And beyond that, there is a difference between state-endorsed speech and private citizen speech. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Taq Member Posts: 10044 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Percy writes: Another piece of our history lost: They are moving them, not destroying them.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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This was a good read:
Transcript of New Orleans Mayor Landrieu’s address on Confederate monuments | The Pulse It's the mayor of New Orleans explaining why they took the monuments down. I don't really care if a city want to remove monuments, but I did think it was a pretty dumb thing to do. Reading the mayors explanation changed my mind some, and I don't think it's that dumb. It's not really something that I care about, but they can do what they want - and the reasoning wasn't bad and isn't really disagreeable.
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Taq Member Posts: 10044 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
New Cat's Eye writes: This was a good read:http://pulsegulfcoast.com/...ddress-on-confederate-monuments It's the mayor of New Orleans explaining why they took the monuments down. I don't really care if a city want to remove monuments, but I did think it was a pretty dumb thing to do. Reading the mayors explanation changed my mind some, and I don't think it's that dumb. It's not really something that I care about, but they can do what they want - and the reasoning wasn't bad and isn't really disagreeable.
In that speech, the mayor mentions how the people who built and erected the statues were trying to rewrite history. I wasn't quite sure what he was talking about until I saw this picture of one of the monuments that was taken down.
It all makes a little more sense now. There was a racist backlash after the South lost the Civil War, and part of that was erecting statues that tried to change the truth about history.
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I thought they were just removing statues, not pedestals. We know that in the case of the Robert E. Lee statue they removed only the statue because there's film, and articles described that they would replace the statue with an American flag. I wonder if they removed that pedestal in your image.
--Percy
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marc9000 Member Posts: 1522 From: Ky U.S. Joined: Member Rating: 1.3
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Hello Percy, since this thread is related to the civil war, I have a somewhat related newspaper article that I think you and others participating in this thread might like to read - it's not too long.
My great-grandfather (my mother's grandfather) grew up in Maryland, born in 1851, and did some scampering around on civil war battlefields as a boy. He met both Lincoln and Lee. He moved to Ohio as a young man, and spent his adult life there. In 1938, when he was 87 years old, a newspaper interviewed him about what he saw. He lived to be 97, died 6 years before I was born so I never knew him. This newspaper article, including copies of it, are getting in pretty bad shape, so I retyped it so it won't be lost - easy to c/p it here. His last name is different from mine, and out of respect for people with that name, I've just changed it to "Mr. Jones", since his name isn't important to anyone but our family. So this is a little civil war history without historians filters!
quote:
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Very neat.
--Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8
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Over the past year while this thread has lain mainly dormant I have occasionally reflected on this topic and find my attitudes changing. This Last Week Tonight video pretty much sums up the point of the view that I'm having more and more trouble denying:
It's long, but it's John Oliver and he's funny. --Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
It's long, but it's John Oliver and he's funny. It is funny. But Oliver's arguments are not new. I think every serious point he made was offered up in this thread. But I don't find it surprising that someone might change their mind over this issue. It has been all over the news this year and particularly lately. I imagine some folks have hardened their stance over the past year in favor of preserving these monuments in place. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
I think what influenced me most was the bar graph showing when the monuments were constructed. I originally figured their construction was fairly evenly distributed over time with a bump in the early part of the 20th century, but I had no idea that period represented the bulk of the monuments. I've positioned the John Oliver video to start just as he's introducing that topic, with the bar graph following 10 or 15 seconds later:
--Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I think what influenced me most was the bar graph showing when the monuments were constructed While no graphs were presented, the fact that a large number of the statutes were actually put up as protests to Reconstruction and during the Jim Crowe/civil rights era was mentioned a number of times. Yes, the graph was a pretty stark presentation of that fact. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
60 Minutes tonight ran a story on Confederate monuments. If you didn't catch it you can see it on the "edisodes" page of their website:
This episode hasn't been posted to the webpage yet, it was just broadcast tonight, but maybe by tomorrow it will be there. --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Yesterday the Tennessee House passed legislation cutting $250,000 of state funding for the bicentennial celebration of the city of Memphis in retaliation for their removal of Civil War statues. Statues of Nathan Bedford Forrest and Jefferson Davis were removed last December.
The Tennessee Historical Commission had denied the city's request for a waiver from the Tennessee Heritage Protection Act so they could remove the statues. The city did an end run around the law by selling the parks to a nonprofit agency, which removed the statues. Both statues were placed as symbols of oppression by whites over blacks. The Forrest statue was erected in 1904 during the Jim Crow era, while the Davis statue was erected in 1964 during the fight for civil rights. Cutting funds allows the white and rural Republican dominated legislature to punish mostly black and Democratic Memphis. Sources:
--Percy
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