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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: What all can you find out from DNA anyway? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Coyote Member (Idle past 2133 days) Posts: 6117 Joined:
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I object to the idea that they are normal events that make normal alleles, I object to the idea that they contribute anything genuine to genetic diversity and so on. But there's no reason I should object to their identification of people groups; in fact that's an unexpected benefit from an error. For tracing ancestry we are not looking at "errors;" we are looking at "changes." The changes can be good, neutral or bad (but insufficiently bad to kill off the recipient)--it doesn't matter. Any changes which can be tracked through successive generations can be used for tracking ancestors and descent groups.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Of course I wonder how reliable the test is. What if there are people groups that have no identifying mutations?
Or, here's a specific question: the person who was tested has a Jewish ancestor who is half Northern/Eastern European/Ashkenazi and half Sephardic (Portuguese in this case) but the percentage given makes the ancestor about 97% Ashkenazi. Should this be explained as there being no particular Sephardic mutation? So that it's all just Jewish DNA? Or could it mean that the Sephardic ancestors had a lot of Ashkenazi ancestry they didn't know about? (A little odd in this case because they have genealogies that go back to the fifteenth century with Sephardic names). And should that unaccounted for 3% be supposed to come from a nonJewish ancestor? Perhaps even that small South Asian percentage? Also said person has a grandmother who is French. But the percentage of French in his test is minuscule, like 1.2%. Does that mean the French grandmother doesn't know her real genetic background or what? Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Asgara Member (Idle past 2330 days) Posts: 1783 From: Wisconsin, USA Joined: |
Each individual receives half their DNA from each parent. You might have a maternal relative that was French but you might not have received any DNA from that line that has the changes necessary for identification.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
unneeded comment.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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frako Member (Idle past 333 days) Posts: 2932 From: slovenija Joined:
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Or could it mean that the Sephardic ancestors had a lot of Ashkenazi ancestry they didn't know about? Um could have been the Ashkenazi mailman's fault if you know what i mean. Edited by frako, : No reason given.Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.
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Pressie Member Posts: 2103 From: Pretoria, SA Joined: |
Goodness gracious. You love your word salads.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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I call them, "fictional" because as far as I can tell, I have to imagine these things existed. You have ancestors that lived during the time that Christ walked the earth, but you don't have any idea of their names, appearances, etc. You can only imagine them. Does that make them fictional? Of course not. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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ramoss Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
If you had relatives that lived in Europe at that time period, you are a direct descendant of everyone in Europe that has a direct descendant.
Me, I am descended from Charlemagne Charlemagne’s DNA and Our Universal Royalty
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
If you had relatives that lived in Europe at that time period, you are a direct descendant of everyone in Europe that has a direct descendant. Surely this is not the case. You are not a direct descendant of your own siblings regardless of how many children they have. And it is unlikely that you would be the direct descendant of any sibling of your grand parents or your aunts and uncles. Are you sure you are saying what you meant to say here? Is it instead that you are direct descendants of all of those old Europeans from 1 AD? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King If there are no stupid questions, then what kind of questions do stupid people ask? Do they get smart just in time to ask questions? Scott Adams
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ramoss Member (Idle past 639 days) Posts: 3228 Joined: |
No, you not a direct decendent of your syblings, but your syblings were not alive 1500 years ago either.
'Of that time period' is of 1500 years go.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
Of course I wonder how reliable the test is. What if there are people groups that have no identifying mutations? Then you wouldn't be able to identify them from the DNA. This is an issue of resolution rather than reliability though. You can't see EVERYTHING from DNA, but that doesn't mean the information you can infer is unreliable. It is, however, not 100% perfect.
Or, here's a specific question: the person who was tested has a Jewish ancestor who is half Northern/Eastern European/Ashkenazi and half Sephardic (Portuguese in this case) but the percentage given makes the ancestor about 97% Ashkenazi. Should this be explained as there being no particular Sephardic mutation? Depends on the test, really. The Ashkenazi and Sephardic are very similar, typically coming out as quite close to Southern Europe (Italy, Greece, Spain) , for perhaps obvious reasons. A cheap test such as the 23andme test, only looks at a small selection of genetic markers and as said, the two groups are very similar to one another. Not sure if there is a definitive indicator that separates them but 23andme may simply not check it.
Or could it mean that the Sephardic ancestors had a lot of Ashkenazi ancestry they didn't know about? From wiki:
quote: . And should that unaccounted for 3% be supposed to come from a nonJewish ancestor? Well, as an approximation, it probably suggests not that there is *A* non-Jewish ancestor, but that 3% of the ancestors were non-Jewish.
Also said person has a grandmother who is French. But the percentage of French in his test is minuscule, like 1.2%. Does that mean the French grandmother doesn't know her real genetic background or what? Well said person only inherited about 25% of said grandmother's genes. Said grandmother is unlikely to have 100% northern European genetic markers (because Europe has had a lot of migration to and fro), and is certain to not have only genes that are characteristic of French.
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14174dm Member (Idle past 1136 days) Posts: 161 From: Cincinnati OH Joined: |
person only inherited about 25% of said grandmother's genes I was wondering - is the 25% of grandmother's genes an exact number or is it a rough approximation for the whole gene? Is it physically possible but statistically unlikely that a person could get 50% of genes from maternal grandmother, 30% from paternal grandfather, 15% from maternal grandfather, and 5% from paternal grandmother? I would assume that the statistics depend on which and how many genes are compared. The more comparisons, the closer to 25% each.
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
I was wondering - is the 25% of grandmother's genes an exact number or is it a rough approximation for the whole gene? Neither. It's a very close approximation based on the law of large numbers. Genetic recombination is like thousands of coin tosses.
Is it physically possible but statistically unlikely that a person could get 50% of genes from maternal grandmother, 30% from paternal grandfather, 15% from maternal grandfather, and 5% from paternal grandmother? Absolutely, but I think there are evolved genetic mechanisms that 'enforce' a 50% division so it's not left entirely to chance. There are however, many many complications.
I would assume that the statistics depend on which and how many genes are compared. The more comparisons, the closer to 25% each. Indeed.
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