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Author | Topic: Is the criticism justifiable? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dirk Member (Idle past 4044 days) Posts: 84 Joined: |
Just a short comment on question 16 - apart from the fact that I have no clue whatsoever what OLV and OLH are supposed to mean - Neanderthal bones are not fossilized. They are just bones. Buried (usually), yes; but fossilized, no.
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Theodoric Member Posts: 9140 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: Member Rating: 3.3 |
FYI for those that did not ask to participate in the survey.
From the message that was sent.
OLT stands for Origin of Life Viewpoint. This is to ensure that nobody feels the other side is being given preference OLH stands for Origin of Life viewpoint Holder I assume that OLT was meant to be OLV. That there was a typo in the first sentence did nothing to make me feel confidence in this "survey". Question 16 made me decide not to participate in the "survey"
16 Assuming that it has been proven that it takes millions of years to make a fossil, is it possible for the the reported age of Neanderthal fossils to be tens of thousands of years? This question shows an agenda, but more so it shows a lack of knowledge of the subject matter. I don't know what mignat's agenda is but I will not be playing. Since there is this blatant ignorance in basic concepts I have no confidence in the validity of this "survey" or any results that may be presented. The full survey.
OLT stands for Origin of Life Viewpoint. This is to ensure that nobody feels the other side is being given preference OLH stands for Origin of Life viewpoint Holder Let's do it: 1 Which is your OLV? 2 Should schools teach your OLV only? 3 Do variations in colour, size or shape prove your OLV? 4 Have you ever exaggerated a truth into an extreme in order to silence an opposing OLH? 5 What is the scientific method? 6 Do opposing OLHs make you lose control? 7 Would you expect an apology to be given to a hurt OLH? 8 Do you research your answers to an opposing OLH's questions before giving them? 9 Does your OLV put you above opposing OLHs in any way? 10 Would a cruel answer to an OLH be acceptable to you? 11 Would a rude answer by an OLH be acceptable to you? 12 Is it unreasonable that anyone should oppose your OLV? 13 Are you any less respectful towards opposing OLHs than your fellow OLHs when correcting a mistake? 14 Would you expect an apology if an an opposing OLH found they had hurt you? 15 Do you expect opposing OLHs behave to a higher standard in their postings than your fellow OLHs? 16 Assuming that it has been proven that it takes millions of years to make a fossil, is it possible for the the reported age of Neanderthal fossils to be tens of thousands of years? 17 Would it concern you at all if you knew you had upset somebody deeply? 18 How would you expect an opposing OLH to prove their OLV? 19 Would you want an apology if somebody hurt you in a posting? 20 Is it the opposing OLHs responsibility to prove themselves right and also to prove you wrong? 21What is you favourite proof of your OLV? 22 Could you see yourself accepting any shared ground with the opposing OLHs, should shared ground be discovered? 23 What would you change if this survey showed the criticism towards your fellow OLHs to be justified and unjustified towards the opposing OLHs? 24 Do you hope this survey will persuade the opposing OLHs that your OLV is the right one? Which one of these things doesn't go with the other? 16 is a complete departure from the rest of the questions. Makes me leery and suspicious of motives. Edited by Theodoric, : Spelling Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Thanks for posting that. I chose not to participate, because I was a bit skeptical about the whole premise of the survey. Based on the posted questions, it seems that my skepticism was warranted.
I have seen more heated debates over whether there are infinite sets (in mathematics), or over whether 0.999... is equal to 1. The level of negativity is reasonably well controlled here due to the moderation and to the forum rules of debate. So the thread title question "Is the criticism justifiable?" seemed a bit forced. Some of those questions are just weird.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2718 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Theodoric.
I agree with your assessment. It's pretty obvious to me that Mignat doesn't have much (if any) experience in conducting surveys, and isn't particularly familiar with the subject matter. This is the question that bothered me the most:
quote: This survey is simply not set up to be able to show which criticisms are justified and which are not. It bothers me that Mignat apparently thinks it is. Edited by Bluejay, : removed a superfluous "but" -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1487 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
I have seen more heated debates over whether there are infinite sets (in mathematics), or over whether 0.999... is equal to 1. Aren't there proofs for both of those? Seems like those should be short debates.
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
crashfrog writes:
Proofs depends on axioms and definitions. The disagreement is with the axioms and definitions used.Aren't there proofs for both of those? Seems like those should be short debates. Perhaps I wasn't clear. The questions are raised by non-mathematicians who think that they know better than mathematicians.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3974 Joined: |
Things may be looking bad, but that's no excuse to shoot off on a different topic.
Adminnemooseus
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.4
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Actually it was a good analogy.....sort of....
The idea that reams & reams of paper have been sacrificed to such a fine point as 0.999999999999999999.... is indeed indicative the ability of the human mind to find ways to waste time. We are damn good at it. - xongsmith, 5.7d
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 304 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Like others on this thread, I feel that many of your questions are ill-posed from a scientific standpoint.
I also feel that your questions are ill-posed from a sociological standpoint. Some of the people whom I disagree with are jerks raving at me about how I'm an evil tool of Satan, and some of them are intelligent sincere people asking intelligent sincere questions. I do not have the same view of both.
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bluegenes Member (Idle past 2497 days) Posts: 3119 From: U.K. Joined: |
survey maker writes: OLT stands for Origin of Life Viewpoint. This is to ensure that nobody feels the other side is being given preferenceOLH stands for Origin of Life viewpoint Holder 1 Which is your OLV? Naturalistic abiogenesis/ chemical evolution.
2 Should schools teach your OLV only? In science classes? Yes, but OOL isn't really school level beyond mentioning hypotheses.
3 Do variations in colour, size or shape prove your OLV? ?????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WTF? IMO, the survey maker isn't qualified to make the survey (and I'm being polite here).
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mignat Junior Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 11 Joined: |
OLT stands for Origin of Life Viewpoint. This is to ensure that nobody feels the other side is being given preference
OLH stands for Origin of Life viewpoint Holder It says that at the top of the survey. I checked then cut and pasted.
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nwr Member Posts: 6409 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
mignat writes:
As far as I can tell, you define OLT but never actually use it.OLT stands for Origin of Life Viewpoint. You do use OLV a lot, but never actually define it.
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mignat Junior Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 11 Joined: |
I've seen typos in many publications but I don't go spreading suspicions about the integrity of the author. It's just a typo. Thank you for pointing it out. You misunderstood Q16 and have no idea of why I put it so please don't sabotage it.
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mignat Junior Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 11 Joined: |
Ok ok, i made a typo. For OLT read OLV.
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mignat Junior Member (Idle past 4959 days) Posts: 11 Joined: |
Whatever
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