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Author | Topic: The Marketing Of Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You can only win if you bet on Zeus.
I take the truth statement: Somebody will win and switch its true implication into my own statement, namely I will win.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Im still trying to figure out how logical people have concluded that the probability of a Creator of all seen and unseen is small.
Just because Hawking thinks the universe could spontaneously create itself out of nothing does not convince me.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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Tangle Member Posts: 9489 From: UK Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Phat writes: Im still trying to figure out how logical people have concluded that the probability of a Creator of all seen and unseen is small. Because we have exactly no evidence for this being - none. Why would anyone believe in something without a shred of evidence?How does that contain any logic?
Just because Hawking thinks the universe could spontaneously create itself out of nothing does not convince me. But nothing would convince you Phat. You just believe. Hawking just provides further evidence that a god is not necessaryJe suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved." - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
But nothing would convince you Phat. You just believe. I'm convinced that much of it is psychological. Believers tend to be made up of people who need and/or want and prefer to have a Father figure...a protector...a rich uncle....whereas non-believers couldn't wait to grow up and leave the nest. They are more adult thinking.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
You should be thinking about why you care about logic or probability at all.
Im still trying to figure out how logical people have concluded that the probability of a Creator of all seen and unseen is small.
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: Believers tend to be made up of people who need and/or want and prefer to have a Father figure...a protector...a rich uncle....whereas non-believers couldn't wait to grow up and leave the nest. They are more adult thinking. Sorry Phat, I am a believer. Yet you find my beliefs make you uncomfortable. It is not a matter of believer versus non-believer. There are different beliefs though; for example some pray for God to help them; even Jesus prayed for God to keep him from being crucified. But he got no response or reprieve. Read Matt 26:36-42.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
There is a lesson in that scripture...I feel it...but having read it, all I see is that Jesus wanted his friends to agree with Him
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Amazing.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
well there is more to it than that, but i was in a hurry to get to work when I replied...what strikes me is that jesus never asks his father for anything special...He merely says if it be possible....but thats not how most people pray.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Phat writes: well there is more to it than that, but i was in a hurry to get to work when I replied...what strikes me is that jesus never asks his father for anything special...He merely says if it be possible....but thats not how most people pray. You are likely correct; it is probably NOT how most people pray. But it is one of the examples of how we should pray that is attributed directly to Jesus. Are their other examples of how people should pray that are attributed to Jesus?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Yes,
Matthew 6:9-13 (NIV) writes: ’
9 This, then, is how you should pray: ‘Our Father in heaven,hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. What gets me is the emphasis on Gods will being done rather than our own. Too many of Biblical Christians prayers are for God to grant us our will rather than for us to allow His. Thanks for refocusing my attention on this matter. For all of his swagger and bluster, RC Sproul doesn't focus on this...or does he? (Lemme check)drat! Yes he does, but he charges $2.00 just for me to listen to the lecture...so fuggedaboudit. You and I can discuss this stuff for free! The nerve! Ligonier writes: The Lord's Prayer series (all 10 lectures) $20.00 Edited by Phat, : added quote from Sprouls wallet Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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I hate that NIV version. The "deliver us from the evil one" simply does not have the impact of deliver us from evil. The former is yet another example of what I call "Not My Fault" Christianity while the latter acknowledges that the evil is US, not some outside force.
Another reminder is the Dismissal found in the Book of Common Prayer; the final end to each service.
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
J.Vernon McGee discussed these prayers at length. (For free too, I might add! )
Let Us Pray: A Study of the Lord’s Prayer One thing that I noted is McGee's point about Jesus being unique in one regard:
quote: edited...found a rebuttal to my assertion Edited by Phat, : No reason given. Edited by Phat, : No reason given.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
He also often referred to "your Father" so I don't see any significance beyond grammar.
Jesus also always referred to GOD as "My Father" rather than "Our father"... wonder why?
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Phat Member Posts: 18262 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
you caught me before I corrected myself after reading further. I got thrown off by something McGee said.
This whole idea of personal responsibility works for me to a point, but I am liberal enough to tend to want to ask for favor rather than simply allow Gods will to be done. Perhaps I dont trust that His Will is for me to have to struggle.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith
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