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Author Topic:   Kent Hovind's debates, can someone help?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 106 of 127 (100309)
04-16-2004 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by nator
04-15-2004 1:20 AM


That he was calling for the extermination of non-whites, or that he was any more racist than any other English Victorian Christian intellectual male.
My take on Darwin's racism is that his version of evolution is inherantly racist, in that blacks were/are the lesser evolved types of humans, the blacks being more of the same color and having some features suggesting lesser evolvement. Would you agree?

The immeasurable present is forever consuming the eternal future and extending the infinite past. buz

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by nator, posted 04-15-2004 1:20 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by PaulK, posted 04-16-2004 4:15 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 114 by nator, posted 04-18-2004 10:12 AM Buzsaw has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 107 of 127 (100343)
04-16-2004 4:15 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
04-16-2004 12:03 AM


That was not what you said in the "RACIAL EVOLUTION 101" thread where you quoted Harrub's assertion that Darwin WAS in favour of extermination.
Do you concede that Harrub failed to adequately support his assertion ?
You may find the link to Harrub's article in my post 51 of this thread.
EvC Forum: Kent Hovind's debates, can someone help?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 04-16-2004 12:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2004 9:44 AM PaulK has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 108 of 127 (100574)
04-17-2004 11:34 AM


Hovind and taxes
Back near the OP - it's possible that Kent may be off the lecture circuit for a while. He seems to have forgotton to inform the taxman about his $1,000,000+ income in several of the last seven years.
http://www.pensacolanewsjournal.com/...704/Local/ST006.shtml
is an article from his local paper about it - his lawyer says:
"This is based on misperceptions. They don't understand how the church is created and registered, how it operates under church law, which is entirely separate from secular authorities."
Yeah. I bet that'd work for me, too - "The First Church of the Tax-Dodging Buzzard."

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2004 9:56 AM Coragyps has replied

Lithodid-Man
Member (Idle past 2931 days)
Posts: 504
From: Juneau, Alaska, USA
Joined: 03-22-2004


Message 109 of 127 (100699)
04-18-2004 7:49 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Buzsaw
03-31-2004 8:13 PM


I like to think I can speak from a position of authority. I am an evolutonary biologist who was raised a YEC. I hope that I understand both sides. I lump public YEC's into three categories; the delusional, the misinformed, and the charlatans. People like Carl Baugh fall into the first category. The second are people like Ken Hamm, who I believe are well intentioned but don't actually understand the concepts. The third are people like Hovind, and I include Morris (Sr and Jr) as well as Gish. These are people who know damn well that what they say is crap and keep repeating it for money.
I watched every one of Hovind's video series. I also downloaded his debates. I also faithfully watch his appearances on the Carl Baugh show (drives my wife nuts). I can now honestly express my opinion that the man is a liar. My criteria are simple. Express a fact.
On the Carl Baugh show Hovind claimed that a professor challenged him on his claim that a whale's pelvis was vestigial. Hovind countered with his claim that the organ was useful for reproduction. The professor (unamed of course) said that this was true but had to be taught or else Creationism would be the only alternative. (part of Hovind's "lies in the texbooks" series)..This is fraud in my book. What professor? Where was this debate?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Buzsaw, posted 03-31-2004 8:13 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by crashfrog, posted 04-18-2004 8:01 AM Lithodid-Man has not replied

crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 110 of 127 (100700)
04-18-2004 8:01 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Lithodid-Man
04-18-2004 7:49 AM


I also faithfully watch his appearances on the Carl Baugh show
When is that on? I catch it sometimes on cable but I've never paid enough attention to the timeslot (and no TiVo.)
I need a few laughs when Bill O'Rielly isn't on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Lithodid-Man, posted 04-18-2004 7:49 AM Lithodid-Man has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 127 (100702)
04-18-2004 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by PaulK
04-16-2004 4:15 AM


My take on Darwin's racism is that his version of evolution is inherantly racist, in that blacks were/are the lesser evolved types of humans, the blacks being more of the same color and having some features suggesting lesser evolvement. Would you agree?
Paul, this is my question to Schraf. Do you care to give your answer this specific question of my post 106?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by PaulK, posted 04-16-2004 4:15 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 04-18-2004 10:08 AM Buzsaw has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 112 of 127 (100703)
04-18-2004 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Coragyps
04-17-2004 11:34 AM


Re: Hovind and taxes
.....it's possible that Kent may be off the lecture circuit for a while. He seems to have forgotton to inform the taxman about his $1,000,000+ income in several of the last seven years.
1. The article does not say he forgot anything.
2. He's not charged with a crime or with tax evasion.
3. The article does not say his income was a million plus at any time. In my business, for example, my gross receipts are far more than my income.
You need to get your posting data fair and balanced before malaigning the man.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Coragyps, posted 04-17-2004 11:34 AM Coragyps has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Coragyps, posted 04-18-2004 10:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 113 of 127 (100704)
04-18-2004 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Buzsaw
04-18-2004 9:44 AM


Racism was normal in the 19th Century. Darwin was no more racist then the majority of pwople of his culture and class.
However you have claimed that Darwin was an "ultra-racist" - something you supposedly learned from Hovind - and quoted Harrub's assertion that Darwin favoured extermination of "lesser" races.
Now has your position changed since you made the earlier assertions ?
Do you now believe that Hovind was wrong and that he misled you ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2004 9:44 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 10:42 PM PaulK has not replied

nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 114 of 127 (100705)
04-18-2004 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Buzsaw
04-16-2004 12:03 AM


quote:
My take on Darwin's racism is that his version of evolution is inherantly racist, in that blacks were/are the lesser evolved types of humans, the blacks being more of the same color and having some features suggesting lesser evolvement. Would you agree?
No, I don't agree.
Where in "Origin of Species" does Darwin say this?
(Aren't you basing your opinion on Hovind's claim that "Origins" is racist and that the Nazis used it?)
Specifically, can you provide any support for your claim that Darwin's theory states that more color = less evolved?
...not that Darwin would use the term "less evolved" anyway, because it is nonsensical in the context of natural selection.
Just read the damn book, buzsaw, and learn a bit about what you are attempting to criticize.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Buzsaw, posted 04-16-2004 12:03 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 11:59 PM nator has not replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 115 of 127 (100706)
04-18-2004 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Buzsaw
04-18-2004 9:56 AM


Re: Hovind and taxes
Read what I wrote, buz! "seems to have...."
I fully realize that he hasn't been convicted of anything. I'll wait and see.
I understand that gross isn't the same as net, too - but I would imagine that you actually file a return each year, don't you, buz? A church is tax-exempt, but the minister isn't - my dad filed a return each and every year. That's the law in this country.
[This message has been edited by Coragyps, 04-18-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Buzsaw, posted 04-18-2004 9:56 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Chiroptera, posted 04-19-2004 10:13 PM Coragyps has not replied
 Message 121 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 11:10 PM Coragyps has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 116 of 127 (101039)
04-19-2004 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Coragyps
04-18-2004 10:13 AM


Re: Hovind and taxes
Actually, if you own a business or are self-employed, don't you have to file a return every quarter?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Coragyps, posted 04-18-2004 10:13 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Darwin Storm, posted 04-19-2004 10:39 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Darwin Storm
Inactive Member


Message 117 of 127 (101051)
04-19-2004 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Chiroptera
04-19-2004 10:13 PM


Re: Hovind and taxes
I think that has do with corporate charters. I think single proprieterships are treated on a yearly basis, but I am not 100% certain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Chiroptera, posted 04-19-2004 10:13 PM Chiroptera has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 118 of 127 (101053)
04-19-2004 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by PaulK
04-18-2004 10:08 AM


Paul, why do you persist missrepresenting what I say? I based my assessment of Darwin's racism on the fact that he seemed to imply that their eventual elimination would be a good thing for the human race.
I don't think 19th century creationists would consider the elimination of the blacks as a good thing for the human race.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by PaulK, posted 04-18-2004 10:08 AM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Coragyps, posted 04-19-2004 10:57 PM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 120 by Chiroptera, posted 04-19-2004 11:09 PM Buzsaw has replied

Coragyps
Member (Idle past 735 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 119 of 127 (101059)
04-19-2004 10:57 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Buzsaw
04-19-2004 10:42 PM


I don't think 19th century creationists would consider the elimination of the blacks as a good thing for the human race.
You're probably right there, buz. How would any work have gotten done on the farm if they had vanished?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 10:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 11:33 PM Coragyps has not replied

Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 120 of 127 (101063)
04-19-2004 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by Buzsaw
04-19-2004 10:42 PM


quote:
I based my assessment of Darwin's racism on the fact that he seemed to imply that their eventual elimination would be a good thing for the human race.
Buz, are you saying that Darwin advocated genocide? Note: I am not putting words in your mouth; I am asking for clarification.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 10:42 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 04-19-2004 11:44 PM Chiroptera has not replied

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