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Author Topic:   I have a question for everybody.
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 31 of 44 (100083)
04-14-2004 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object
04-13-2004 12:03 AM


quote:
Are you saying an unseen body does not exist even if the wobble orbit of a nearby says it does ?
Are you going to suddenly cripple this debate by some unflexible definition of the word "know" ?
You are wandering into a purely hypothetical field of science. At best, scientists theorize that dark matter and dark energies exist, nothing more. They don't know what these things are, they don't know how much of them there are, and they don't really know if these are the only things that cause the strange behaviors of the galaxies.
What I am trying to get at is the word "know" is used much more strictly in the fields of science than you think.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 04-13-2004 12:03 AM Cold Foreign Object has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by SRO2, posted 04-15-2004 2:29 AM coffee_addict has not replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6156 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 32 of 44 (100146)
04-15-2004 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by The Pure One
04-14-2004 9:01 PM


Friendly pointers
Some friendly pointers on this:
"And another story that grabs me is the tower of babble; supposedly it reached to the havens"
First off it's Babel, as in Babylon. Not Babble, the babble tower would be a large, vertical soccer mom convention.
It never reached the heavens according to scripture, it was actually nowhere near completion when God created different languages to stop the builders from communicating. Personally I think he stopped them so they wouldn't waste materials and because assuming they kept going up, the tower would either go JANGA or they'd parish from the thin air way up to wherever.
"Well to barrow a quote from a vary good move it is (not)what you have faith in it’s that you have faith Dogma I love that move and recommend everyone to watch it and listen to it "
I put that 'not' in assuming you meant to put it there. Anyway, are you sure about that? Is it still okay to have faith in an ink plot?
Some could argue that 'God doesn't exist and the ink plot does so it's better' or some stuff like that, but whatever. 'Faith' is not knowing, but believing. Please keep this in mind.
By the way: A name like 'The Pure One' with a picture of a dragon along with the fact that you've replied to me exlusively so far, not to mention the 'unique' spelling, makes it incredibly obvious who you are. Don't think I'll go easy on you, Wolfski.

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This message is a reply to:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 44 (100150)
04-15-2004 2:29 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by coffee_addict
04-14-2004 9:23 PM


Good Job!
I think sometimes that just by the mear fact that science is addressing a hypothesis, laypersons tend to view it as a fact...they forget (or don't know) that science is a field of discovery...never absolutes...you know like the bible is an absolute according to it's believers, therefore not subject to change, thats why we should hate gay persons, muslims and stone adulterers.

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 Message 31 by coffee_addict, posted 04-14-2004 9:23 PM coffee_addict has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Wounded King, posted 04-15-2004 12:37 PM SRO2 has replied

  
Wounded King
Member
Posts: 4149
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, USA
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 34 of 44 (100223)
04-15-2004 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by SRO2
04-15-2004 2:29 AM


Re: Good Job!
I must have missed the bit in the bible about Muslims. Was it a later revision by some divinely inspired monk?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by SRO2, posted 04-15-2004 2:29 AM SRO2 has replied

Replies to this message:
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SRO2 
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 44 (100224)
04-15-2004 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Wounded King
04-15-2004 12:37 PM


Re: Good Job!
Ya' always gotta' throw a muslim or two in for good measure...it's default, the only path to heaven is through Jesus..everybody else is the enemy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Wounded King, posted 04-15-2004 12:37 PM Wounded King has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 36 of 44 (102938)
04-26-2004 11:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing
04-10-2004 3:26 PM


Why the Need to Believe?
Belief: Anything believed or accepted as true.
Believe: To have trust or confidence.
Faith: Complete trust or confidence.
I have found no reason to trust or have confidence in the supernatural portions of the Bible. We should trust in God to what?
The wisdom passed down from the experiences of the ancients from various cultures help to guide my life besides my own observations and experiences.
For me to put trust or confidence in a supreme being the supreme being would need to show himself in the fasion of 1Kings 18:25-39.
Why the need to believe in someone who is not visible? I've been a Christian all my life and then I studied the Bible.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 04-10-2004 3:26 PM One_Charred_Wing has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 04-29-2004 12:47 AM purpledawn has replied

  
One_Charred_Wing
Member (Idle past 6156 days)
Posts: 690
From: USA West Coast
Joined: 11-21-2003


Message 37 of 44 (103613)
04-29-2004 12:47 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by purpledawn
04-26-2004 11:07 PM


Re: Why the Need to Believe?
purpledawn writes:
Why the need to believe in someone who is not visible? I've been a Christian all my life and then I studied the Bible.
So the errancy of the words written and rewritten by humans makes you conclude that God doesn't exist?

Wanna feel God? Step onto the wrestling mat and you'd be crazy to deny the uplifting spirit.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by purpledawn, posted 04-26-2004 11:07 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 38 of 44 (103728)
04-29-2004 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by rineholdr
04-14-2004 5:06 PM


Re: Right on
Actually, if you will read the rest of Matt 5 you will find that he is talking about the laws, the social laws, pertaining to how people live together.
The full quote is
18: For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
He then goes on to expand some of the laws for example, expanding killing to just being angry without cause.
So the section that you quote simply shows that things do change and that what is written will, and should be only a guideline.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by rineholdr, posted 04-14-2004 5:06 PM rineholdr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by rineholdr, posted 04-29-2004 1:04 PM jar has replied

  
rineholdr
Inactive Member


Message 39 of 44 (103752)
04-29-2004 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by jar
04-29-2004 11:24 AM


Re: Right on
The Saviour of souls is the destroyer of nothing but the works of the devil, of nothing that comes from God, much less of those excellent dictates which we have from Moses and the prophets. No, he came to fulfil them. That is, To obey the commands of the law, for he was made under the law, Gal. iv. 4. He in all respects yielded obedience to the law, honoured his parents, sanctified the sabbath, prayed, gave alms, and did that which never any one else did, obeyed perfectly, and never broke the law in any thing. To make good the promises of the law, and the predictions of the prophets, which did all bear witness to him. The covenant of grace is, for substance, the same now that it was then, and Christ the Mediator of it. To answer the types of the law; thus (as bishop Tillotson expresses it), he did not make void, but make good, the ceremonial law, and manifested himself to be the Substance of all those shadows. To fill up the defects of it, and so to complete and perfect it. Thus the word plerosai properly signifies. If we consider the law as a vessel that had some water in it before, he did not come to pour out the water, but to fill the vessel up to the brim; or, as a picture that is first rough-drawn, displays some outlines only of the piece intended, which are afterwards filled up; so Christ made an improvement of the law and the prophets by his additions and explications. To carry on the same design; the Christian institutes are so far from thwarting and contradicting that which was the main design of the Jewish religion, that they promote it to the highest degree. The gospel is the time of reformation (Heb. ix. 10), not the repeal of the law, but the amendment of it, and, consequently, its establishment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 11:24 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 1:30 PM rineholdr has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 40 of 44 (103757)
04-29-2004 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by One_Charred_Wing
04-29-2004 12:47 AM


Re: Why the Need to Believe?
Actually the lack of a god showing itself to me brings me to my conclusion to not trust in an unseen being.
The ancients wrote as their era dictated. Their political and religious practices, what they saw happening around them, how they preceived what happened around them, and the knowledge at their disposal.
The errors are not the problem. Saying they don't exist is the problem. That's what kills the trust. If I can't trust them in little things why should I trust them in the big things like a supreme being. (sound familiar?) So since we don't have the truly original manuscripts from OT or NT and I don't read dead languages, I have to trust the clergy (who have supposedly gone to college to learn what is truly correct) or my bible translations. I have various bibles and they don't always agree with each other. I can't trust what I can't see or interact with in some fashion.
When software or hardware gets outdated it won't communicate with other systems. We definitely need an update from the manufacture if it is still in business.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by One_Charred_Wing, posted 04-29-2004 12:47 AM One_Charred_Wing has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 41 of 44 (103764)
04-29-2004 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by rineholdr
04-29-2004 1:04 PM


Re: Right on
Was there a statement, comment or information in that post?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by rineholdr, posted 04-29-2004 1:04 PM rineholdr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by rineholdr, posted 04-29-2004 1:38 PM jar has replied
 Message 43 by rineholdr, posted 04-29-2004 1:38 PM jar has not replied

  
rineholdr
Inactive Member


Message 42 of 44 (103766)
04-29-2004 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
04-29-2004 1:30 PM


Re: Right on
Yes the point was that the 10 commandments stand and are not abolished or destroyed. They are to be obsurved today as in the time of Christ and before His 1st. comming. Not one thing is to be changed in that Law. Till Heaven and Earth Pass they shall not change. The law of ordanence that were written by Moses many were done away with, sacrifical system and a few others were nailed to the cross but the Commands of God written with His finger are not to be messed with. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven, "won't be there!" but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 1:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 1:53 PM rineholdr has not replied

  
rineholdr
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 44 (103767)
04-29-2004 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by jar
04-29-2004 1:30 PM


Re: Right on
/
[This message has been edited by rineholdr, 04-29-2004]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by jar, posted 04-29-2004 1:30 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 44 of 44 (103773)
04-29-2004 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by rineholdr
04-29-2004 1:38 PM


Re: Right on
Okay.
But what does that have to do with whether or not to take the Bible as a literal document or as a collection of guidelines and parables?
The initial question was about what we as Christian Evolutionists believe relating to GOD. What do we have faith in?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by rineholdr, posted 04-29-2004 1:38 PM rineholdr has not replied

  
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