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Author Topic:   Does teaching of evolution cause social decay?
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 137 (105562)
05-05-2004 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
05-05-2004 1:13 PM


Re: ...
I just mentioned all those things before..Didnt you read them? Im sure every else did...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 05-05-2004 1:13 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
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almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 137 (105564)
05-05-2004 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Coragyps
05-05-2004 1:14 PM


Re: ...
No Difference! But Gods truth and holiness always shined through showing lives how to live holy and receive eternal life...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Coragyps, posted 05-05-2004 1:14 PM Coragyps has not replied

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 137 (105567)
05-05-2004 1:32 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Parsimonious_Razor
05-05-2004 1:25 PM


Re: ...
And which individuals will be giving as this Social Norm?..Let me guess humanists? Didnt you read uptop what i originally saidabout Humanists.And theres so much more.Humanist plan for a world government to achieve peace..Hmm i remember that story falling straight into the hands of Biblical prophecy...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Parsimonious_Razor, posted 05-05-2004 1:25 PM Parsimonious_Razor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by Parsimonious_Razor, posted 05-05-2004 3:48 PM almeyda has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 24 of 137 (105570)
05-05-2004 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:25 PM


Re: ...
The point is there isnt even a basis for morality!.There is nothing..No Divine guide to living (Well we do in the Bible but lets say the Bible didnt exist).There would be no standard.
And there is the downfall of your whole argument.
GOD is NOT the Bible.
And if you will bother to look, the Koran for instance has a far better guide to living and morality than either the OT or NT. In addition, almost every other Religion has moral codes that are identical to those in the Bible.
By saying that the Bible is some authority on social behavior, when the same moral standards are incorporated in almost every other religious and philosophical text, you lose any primacy that might acrue to the Bible.
The second important thing you need to understand is that evolution is totally unrelated to morality. That is why you find so many Christian Evolutionists.
Evolution simply describes the HOW. WHY is far more the realm of philosophy and religion. The two are not mutually exclusive.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:25 PM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:48 PM jar has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 167 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 25 of 137 (105571)
05-05-2004 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:25 PM


Re: ...
just mentioned all those things before..Didnt you read them? Im sure every else did...
None of what you posted is evidence. It's just assertions.
What comparisons have you made between today and previous times? What measurements have you made of social decline? How much trouble did people have finding purpose in life in 1900? in 1850? In 1800? How much political corruption, lying, slander, debauchery, violent crime, abortion, theft, adultery, drug taking, drunkenness, gambling, and greed was there in 1900? in 1850? in 1800?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:25 PM almeyda has not replied

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 26 of 137 (105574)
05-05-2004 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by jar
05-05-2004 1:37 PM


Re: ...
Ive copied & Pasted the following from a thread i debated in...(Few stuff added)
A Religion is only as good as the book that its basing its philosophy on..Its whole foundation..So basically a rightness of a religion is determined by the credentials of its founder & by the divine inspiration of its text book..And when your basing it on the Bible which Christians do then your right because Christians dont reintepret Gods word...What is the proof of the bible? Well i could write for pages but ill only write 4 major ones..
UNITY-Written by 40 or so men,most of which did not know each other,several continents,over a period of 1600yrs..Almost 2 milleniums..And they all came to together to make a perfect book without error or contradiction.This same book went on to be the foundation of law,morality and meaning of life..This makes the Bible unique because no book has been written insuch a way.All talking about a coming messiah in the flesh.(Imagine 40 of us or even just 10 no knowing each other and written on every aspect of life prohecy,future,morals,origins,science,love, There would without a doubt be some sort of disagreement
PROPHECY-In Isaiah 41:23 God challenges other religions to prove that they are the way.And to this day no book in the world has correctly fortold the future hundreds of times without mistakes.Buddha,Hindu,Muslims do not any contained writings of a fullfilled prophecy.Everyother religion has come after!This is the only one who fullfilled prophecy hundreds of times over(This is good evidence that there is a greater mind than man with guided the writings of the book)
SCIENCE-Scientific information that ppl only discovered recently or centuries after..Everything from the earth is round(Isaiah 40:22),earch is suspended in space without support (Job 26:7)etc etc..The list literally goes on and on..(The Bible is only at Conflicts with Evolution,But remember Evolution is the science of Humanist..Not Science in general.Historical science is very different to practical science we see everyday..Historical is based on presuppositions,frameworks etc..A creationists and evolutionists are both scientist...(There was a big list of more science in the Bible i wrote in the thread "Why Choose Christianity (or One of the Other Possibilities) as Your Religion?")
ARCHAEOLOGY-Archaelogoy discoveries have confirmed the Bibles historical accuracy.In fact it was quite possible the first and earliest writings of mankind (Showing the source of the earth right to the end).All jewish,Israeli history is all confirmed in the Bible.This of course gives proof that the things in the Bible did happen.This overwhelming amount of evidence proves withot a doubt the Bible speaks on actual historical events.Including the reserrection
The Bible is indeed the word of God without error...The inexahaustable depth of the book..There is literally thousands more evidences..All you have to have is the will to accept it..Every other book can be mastered in one or 2 reads expect the Bible which can be read hundreds of times and studied thousands of times
This message has been edited by almeyda, 05-05-2004 12:51 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by jar, posted 05-05-2004 1:37 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Coragyps, posted 05-05-2004 1:58 PM almeyda has not replied
 Message 29 by jar, posted 05-05-2004 2:03 PM almeyda has replied
 Message 32 by coffee_addict, posted 05-05-2004 2:15 PM almeyda has not replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 137 (105576)
05-05-2004 1:52 PM


Let's be fair to Almeyda, here. As an atheist, I'm left up to my own moral devices. As a result, I personally slaughter twelve puppies a day, feed them to twelve other puppies, and then repeatedly stab the second set of puppies and have sex with the stab wounds.
Without God as a compass, what other result is possible?
I really should find a religion soon, because all these puppies are getting expensive. And I think the pet store owner is getting suspicious.

"As the days go by, we face the increasing inevitability that we are alone in a godless, uninhabited, hostile and meaningless universe. Still, you've got to laugh, haven't you?"
-Holly

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 28 of 137 (105580)
05-05-2004 1:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:48 PM


Re: ...
And to this day no book in the world has correctly fortold the future hundreds of times without mistakes.
Well, there's an accurate statement. No book has even come close. No book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:48 PM almeyda has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 29 of 137 (105586)
05-05-2004 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:48 PM


Re: ...
That is not a debate, it is a rant and a Clavinism.
But let's try to deal with a few of the sillier assertions and things that are simply WRONG.
A Religion is only as good as the book that its basing its philosophy on
That is simply stupid. The BOOK is not the religion. The MAP is not the TERRITORY. Or if that is too complicated, "The MAP is not the TREASURE".
UNITY-Written by 40 or so men
That too is simply wrong. You have obviously NO knowledge of the Bible.
Please explain the term Septuagint and it's relation to the Bible.
SCIENCE-Scientific information that ppl only discovered recently or centuries after..Everything from the earth is round(Isaiah 40:22),earch is suspended in space without support (Job 26:7)etc etc..The list literally goes on and on..(The Bible is only at Conflicts with Evolution,But remember Evolution is the science of Humanist..Not Science in general.Historical science is very different to practical science we see everyday..Historical is based on presuppositions,frameworks etc..A creationists and evolutionists are both scientist...(There was a big list of more science in the Bible i wrote in the thread "Why Choose Christianity (or One of the Other Possibilities) as Your Religion?")
Every single creation myth has the same things, an Earth suspended in space. The knowledge that the Earth is round certainly goes back as far as Biblical times and was PROVEN at least as early as 300BCE.
Creationists are NOT Scientists and have never shown they even understand the Scientific Method.
So far, there has been almost NO confirmation from the historical record, archeology or any other source for most of the things in the Bible. And many of the things in the Bible have been disproven. For example, there is absolutely NO evidence that there was ever a worldwide flood.
As to mastering the Bible, so far you have nor even demonstrated a passing knowledge of the Bible, much less any mastery of it.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:48 PM almeyda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 2:12 PM jar has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 30 of 137 (105588)
05-05-2004 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:25 PM


Re: ...
Evolution doesn't say that there is no basis for morality.
Evolution doesn't say that there is no God.
So the relevance of evolution to your "point" is zero.
As for accpeting God as the final authority on morality who gets to decide what God says ? And who gets to interpret it ? You won't get agreement there. And if your way worked Afghanistan under the Taliban should have been one of the most virtuous countries on Earth. Was it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:25 PM almeyda has not replied

  
almeyda
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 137 (105591)
05-05-2004 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
05-05-2004 2:03 PM


Re: ...
Jar your replys have been very bizzare indeed.I showed you science from the Bible.In the other thread you were the person i replied to because you said to this day i have not seen science in the Bible did you forget? Let me remind you that this does not prove the Bible is the word of God this and the other proofs i wrote for the Bible is evidence that it is Unique among all books.I hope that Frogguy i debated with also reads this..(Copy & Pasted...Here are just some
1. Hydrologic cycle- Genesis 1:6,7 (perfect conditions for life)
2.Engineering - Genesis 6:15 (It was not until the 1900s that comparable sized ships were constructed)
3. Air has weight - Job 28:25 (Job was written 2000bc,Yet People thought air was weightless until 1643)
4.Light moves - Job 38:19,20 (Newton & Huygens first confirmed this in the 1600s)
5. Time had a beginning - 2 Timothy 1:9,Titus 1:2,1 Corinthians 2:7 (This general relativity theory cause Einstien to a complete switch from Athiesm to some kind of creator)
6. Stars are countless - Jeremiah 33:22 (For centuries ppl thought there were 1100 stars etc.Astronomers now acknowledge that it would take 100 trillion yrs to count all the stars making them countless)
7. Ocean currents - Isaiah 43:16,Psalms 8:8 (Matthew Fontaine Maury earned the reputation of "Father of oceanography" after discovering mapping ocean currents for better sea travel efficiency in 1855)
8. Global Wind patterns - Ecclesiastes 1:6 (Only with advanced satellite technology have scientist been able to accurately define global wind currents.Yet in Ecclesiastes written 1000 yrs before Christ describes a repeated cycle of wind)
9.2nd law of thermodynamics -Psalm 102:25,26 ,Isaiah 51:6,Matthew 24:35,Romans 8:20-22,1 John 2:17,Hebrews 12:27 (This was discovered in 1850.Things run down hill not uphill as Evolution suggests)
10.Atoms & Molecules -Hebrews 11:3 (Science caught up with Democritus theory that matter was made of invisible particles in 1803)
11.Circumsision - Genesis 17:11 (In the mid 1900s research showed the risk of infections,cancers etc that could be carried in the foreskin of uncircumsized males)
12. Sterilization - Numbers 19,Leviticus 13,Leviticus 11:29-40,Levitcus 15,Leviticus 12,Leviticus 6:8-13(Another biblical insight which was not understood until the late 1800s,Everything from washing hands to handling the dead)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by jar, posted 05-05-2004 2:03 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by coffee_addict, posted 05-05-2004 2:21 PM almeyda has not replied
 Message 34 by jar, posted 05-05-2004 2:49 PM almeyda has not replied
 Message 37 by AdminAsgara, posted 05-05-2004 5:34 PM almeyda has not replied

  
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 32 of 137 (105593)
05-05-2004 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:48 PM


Re: ...
almeyda writes:
The Bible is indeed the word of God without error...The inexahaustable depth of the book..There is literally thousands more evidences..All you have to have is the will to accept it..Every other book can be mastered in one or 2 reads expect the Bible which can be read hundreds of times and studied thousands of times
Which version of the bible are you talking about?
Speaking as someone that speaks 2 languages fluently and a 3rd language for backup, there is no such thing as a noninterpreted translation. Care to enlighten to the rest of us why you think the version of the bible (in English) that you have read is without translation error from the original?
Note that I am saving the historical accuracy assertion for later. If you think that you can make assertions without backing them up without the rest of us coming down on you, you are wrong.

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
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coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 476 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 33 of 137 (105597)
05-05-2004 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by almeyda
05-05-2004 2:12 PM


Re: ...
Based on your reasoning, the Quran is more valid than the bible, since it Predicted the speed of light

The Laminator

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 2:12 PM almeyda has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 34 of 137 (105601)
05-05-2004 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by almeyda
05-05-2004 2:12 PM


Re: ...
1. Hydrologic cycle- Genesis 1:6,7 (perfect conditions for life)
quote:
6: And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
7: And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
I fail to see how you get a Hydrolic cycle from that.
2.Engineering - Genesis 6:15 (It was not until the 1900s that comparable sized ships were constructed)
quote:
15: And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
If that is engineering, it is piss poor engineering and any GOD that designed such a craft is something to be pitied, not worshipped. The ARK as described in the Bible is an abortion. Since sailing and vessels had been around for many, many thousands of years, long before the Bronze Age, this is far more likely simply a description by someone who lived way inland and had no concept of how a boat should be built.
Just as an aside, the description is far more appropriate for a house and we have lots of evidence of how well houses survive a flood.
3. Air has weight - Job 28:25 (Job was written 2000bc,Yet People thought air was weightless until 1643)
No one who has ever felt a breeze thought air was weightless. It simply took a while to actually WEIGH air.
4.Light moves - Job 38:19,20 (Newton & Huygens first confirmed this in the 1600s)
Of course light moves. That was known forever. But again, it was not proven until later. Anyone that looked at the sun or moon believed that light moved. But they had no understanding of what light was.
5. Time had a beginning - 2 Timothy 1:9,Titus 1:2,1 Corinthians 2:7 (This general relativity theory cause Einstien to a complete switch from Athiesm to some kind of creator)
Every creation myth begins in the beginning.
6. Stars are countless - Jeremiah 33:22 (For centuries ppl thought there were 1100 stars etc.Astronomers now acknowledge that it would take 100 trillion yrs to count all the stars making them countless)
Stars are NOT countless. There are a lot of them and the phrase, as countless as the snad on the beach or the stars in the sky certainly predates the Bible.
7. Ocean currents - Isaiah 43:16,Psalms 8:8 (Matthew Fontaine Maury earned the reputation of "Father of oceanography" after discovering mapping ocean currents for better sea travel efficiency in 1855)
Sorry, gotta cal BS on this as well. Currents were known and used ever since men first went upon the sea.
8. Global Wind patterns - Ecclesiastes 1:6 (Only with advanced satellite technology have scientist been able to accurately define global wind currents.Yet in Ecclesiastes written 1000 yrs before Christ describes a repeated cycle of wind)
quote:
6: The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
Glad you included that one because HE WAS WRONG. Global wind parterns do NOT go north and south but east and west.
9.2nd law of thermodynamics -Psalm 102:25,26 ,Isaiah 51:6,Matthew 24:35,Romans 8:20-22,1 John 2:17,Hebrews 12:27 (This was discovered in 1850.Things run down hill not uphill as Evolution suggests)
Evolution does not teach that things run uphill. That is simply not true.
10.Atoms & Molecules -Hebrews 11:3 (Science caught up with Democritus theory that matter was made of invisible particles in 1803)
quote:
3: Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.
How you can get atoms or even molecules out of that I will never understand.
11.Circumsision - Genesis 17:11 (In the mid 1900s research showed the risk of infections,cancers etc that could be carried in the foreskin of uncircumsized males)
If that is the case then Paul will certainly be going to hell since he clearly says that circumcision was not necessary. Once again, the Bible is contradictory and has no consistency.
12. Sterilization - Numbers 19,Leviticus 13,Leviticus 11:29-40,Levitcus 15,Leviticus 12,Leviticus 6:8-13(Another biblical insight which was not understood until the late 1800s,Everything from washing hands to handling the dead)
None of those practices involve sterilization and certainly show no understanding that even washing is related to cleanliness or desease.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 2:12 PM almeyda has not replied

  
Parsimonious_Razor
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 137 (105617)
05-05-2004 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by almeyda
05-05-2004 1:32 PM


Re: ...
The whole point of my post was to point out that evolution has defined innatly in humans a strong moral sense guided by identified princibles such as reciprical alturism and kin selection. Every indivdual born will have this EEA defined sense of morals. Evolution does not equate to immorality either by its actions or by it being taught.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by almeyda, posted 05-05-2004 1:32 PM almeyda has not replied

  
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