Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is a True Christian?
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 12 of 329 (110022)
05-23-2004 4:00 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by mike the wiz
05-23-2004 1:47 PM


More Info
quote:
Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
Which teachings of his are different from the Jewish teachings?
quote:
Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
Can you clarify what these qualities are? What is Christlike?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by mike the wiz, posted 05-23-2004 1:47 PM mike the wiz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by riVeRraT, posted 05-24-2004 9:06 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 15 of 329 (110031)
05-23-2004 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Petra
05-23-2004 5:41 PM


quote:
Actually it is God who gets to decide who is and who isn’t.
So no one will know if they are a "true Christian" until after they die.
Which means no one posting in these Forums can know who is or isn't a "true Christian."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Petra, posted 05-23-2004 5:41 PM Petra has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Petra, posted 05-24-2004 5:09 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 21 of 329 (110098)
05-24-2004 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Petra
05-24-2004 5:09 AM


Re: to purpledawn
IrishRockhound wrote:
quote:
The general idea seems to be that, for Christian fundamentalists, anyone who does not agree with their interpretation of the bible or creationism is 'not a true Christian'. This has come up in several threads, usually in relation to theistic evolutionists. In order to clarify for everyone interested, I believe that some kind of definition would be helpful (and could possibly prevent inadvertant insults).
Petra wrote:
quote:
A true Christian is someone who has completely entrusted his life to Jesus Christ.
No I didn't miss that, but it isn't visible when a Christian posts and you said only God can judge that.
So by what criteria can we mortals judge?
Can we expect a certain level of decent behavior to go along with that acceptance?
By your definition all Christians making that claim are true Christians whether they believe in evolution or creationism, or a young earth or old earth; correct?
If true, then Christians should respect each other and shouldn't be slinging mud, right?
Kinda goes back to the post with the footballer and tennis. If a Christian says he has entrusted his life to Jesus Christ, but his behavior is deplorable, doesn't that negate his claim?
If I claim to be a good writer, but my posts are filled with misspellings, lack of punctuation, run-on sentences, and no capitalizaion; wouldn't you question my claim?
If one who has entrusted his life to Jesus Christ should act Christlike, what is Christlike?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Petra, posted 05-24-2004 5:09 AM Petra has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Petra, posted 05-29-2004 4:47 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 54 of 329 (110225)
05-24-2004 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
05-19-2004 8:21 AM


Spiritual Maturity
Rockhound,
From the posts I've read, the love/acceptance of God/Christ in whatever variation the denomination interprets (I'm being very very general) doesn't deal with behavior when determining a Christian.
I feel that what you have come up against though is a Spiritual Maturity issue.
John 5:19-23 reads:
quote:
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities , strife, jealousy , outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness , faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
Some Christians accept Christ, but don't always let go of all the fleshly problems. The goal is to work on these as you grow spiritually through Christ. Some don't mature and get so preoccupied with gathering up the tares that they destroy perfectly good wheat.
For me personally, I know the limits of my own spiritual maturity, consider the source, turn my self-control on high, and answer as unemotionally as possible.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 05-19-2004 8:21 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-24-2004 11:08 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 56 of 329 (110245)
05-24-2004 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Cold Foreign Object
05-24-2004 11:08 PM


Re: Spiritual Maturity
I rest my case.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-24-2004 11:08 PM Cold Foreign Object has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Cold Foreign Object, posted 05-24-2004 11:30 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 71 of 329 (110355)
05-25-2004 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by riVeRraT
05-24-2004 9:00 AM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
quote:
That doesn't make you a true christian, just a good one.
So true Christians can be broken down into "good and bad?" Doesn't that contradict the following scripture?
quote:
Mt 7:18
"A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
Because the bottom of msg 46 is definitely not showing good fruit.
quote:
7:20
"So then, you will know them by their fruits.
So is it unreasonable to expect decent behavior from one who proclaims to be a Christian?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by riVeRraT, posted 05-24-2004 9:00 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by riVeRraT, posted 05-25-2004 9:56 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 90 of 329 (110629)
05-26-2004 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by riVeRraT
05-25-2004 9:56 AM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
Interesting.
So even though Galatians 5:19-23 reads:
quote:
Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities , strife, jealousy , outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness , faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.
I can't extrapolate from that to use "You shall know them by their fruit" and apply it to Christian behavior unless they are Prophets?
(BTW if anyone noticed I typed John the first time I used this scripture, by bad. Too many books open!)

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by riVeRraT, posted 05-25-2004 9:56 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 05-26-2004 9:29 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 104 of 329 (110700)
05-26-2004 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by riVeRraT
05-26-2004 9:29 AM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
quote:
No you can't. Here is why.
Prophets are judged soley on the accuracy of thier prophecy. Thats why any prophet who bears "bad fruit" is not really a prophet. This is what he was talking about.
Can I say:
quote:
Luke 6:43-45
For there is no good tree which produces bad fruit, nor, on the other hand, a bad tree which produces good fruit. For each tree is known by its own fruit. For men do not gather figs from thorns, nor do they pick grapes from a briar bush.
The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good; and the evil man out of the evil treasure brings forth what is evil; for his mouth speaks from that which fills his heart.
Would this pertain to regular Christians?
Would Christians still bear bad fruit in this instance?
Or are Christians today more like Gurney's 5-in-1 apple tree. Five different varieties from sweet to sour on one tree.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by riVeRraT, posted 05-26-2004 9:29 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by riVeRraT, posted 05-26-2004 10:13 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 119 of 329 (110842)
05-27-2004 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by riVeRraT
05-26-2004 10:13 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
quote:
Which goes along with what I am saying. To be a Christian, you must believe in Christ and accept him as your savior.
But this doesn't mean you won't be judged by how you perform the will of the Father.
I definitely agree with you on that point.
Personally, I do expect a certain level of decent behavior from someone who professes to be a Christian.
quote:
I am really starting to dislike the expression "true Christian" as it could have too many meanings, one of them being contradictory.
What is really meant by that expression?
Then we could discuss it better.
From the way I have heard this phrase, and variations of it, used in this forum and outside, it can be a praise or an insult.
Praise when you agree with another Christian's point of view on Bible interpretation, dogma, tradition, etc. and an insult when you don't.
When used as an insult, as in a debate or argument, it can serve as a stumbling block for your target by causing them to doubt their position, beliefs, knowledge, etc.
I've also seen it used by non-Christians when encountering deplorable behavior from a professed Christian.
Variations on a theme: Good Christian, Real Christian, True Christian, etc.
IMO the statement has nothing at all to do with whether one has accepted Christ or not.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by riVeRraT, posted 05-26-2004 10:13 PM riVeRraT has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by IrishRockhound, posted 05-27-2004 9:45 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 131 of 329 (110894)
05-27-2004 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by IrishRockhound
05-27-2004 9:45 AM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
Personally, I expect at least a reasonble attempt at the following in bold:
quote:
...the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control...
especially self-control.
Any church or Bible study I have been a part of has taught that Christians should strive to exude the above behaviors.
Now I realize that we all fall short of this behavioral goal at any given time in our lives; but since a writer chooses what words to write and which ones to edit, I truly see no excuse for harsh or abusive language.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by IrishRockhound, posted 05-27-2004 9:45 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 140 of 329 (111493)
05-29-2004 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Petra
05-29-2004 4:47 PM


Judge Not
I don't feel the scripture from Matthew and Luke really says don't ever judge, but instead how you judge others is how you will be judged. Along the lines of "if you don't want something done to you, then don't do it to others."
In reality we have to make judgments about people everyday or at least every other day. I have to judge whether someone is lying to me or not. I have to judge whether someone is trustworthy or not. But, if I make these judgments superficially, then that is how I will be judged.
quote:
Must non-believers know exactly what kinda behaviour that is hence they always know exactly when a Christian does something he/she is not supposed to do.
It is not for the purpose of saying "Oh you did something wrong." It is more to the point of, if this person responds in this manner are they really a Christian? Can I trust what they are saying concerning scripture or anything else pertaining to Christianity?
quote:
Maybe it just shows that he/she is only human.
Making mistakes is human, but I don't agree that being human is an excuse for bad behavior. I have met people who don't have Christ in their life who have shown better Christlike behavior than I have seen in some Christians.
quote:
You can find a lot about what Christlike behaviour is in the bible.
Yes, the Bible does say alot about behavior, but unfortunately many Christians don't like to be held accountable to their own standards. That's why I asked what is considered to be Christlike behavior. I know what is in the Bible, but is that what Christians on this thread consider to be Christlike?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Petra, posted 05-29-2004 4:47 PM Petra has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024