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Author Topic:   What is a True Christian?
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 16 of 329 (110035)
05-23-2004 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Trixie
05-23-2004 4:23 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
I tend to agree BUT...
(there is always that but)
I see Christianity as a subset of the GODLY.
If Christ returned today, I think he would happily sit down with many of our Atheist members and share a brew or three. He'd most likely even, as was his wont, stand a few rounds for the house. But he would flat put a hurting on the likes of Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell. The best that they could possibly hope for is a serious asswhopping.
So professing a belief in Christ is nowhere near as important, IMHO, as what you do. There will be many who proclaim loudly that they are Christians but that will find the way closed to them, while many who may even deny the very existance of GOD may will find seats next to the Lord for the main event, Falwell gets fed to the Lions.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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Replies to this message:
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 Message 29 by MonkeyBoy, posted 05-24-2004 10:00 AM jar has replied
 Message 39 by riVeRraT, posted 05-24-2004 5:45 PM jar has replied
 Message 64 by Buzsaw, posted 05-25-2004 12:35 AM jar has not replied

  
johnfolton 
Suspended Member (Idle past 5591 days)
Posts: 2024
Joined: 12-04-2005


Message 17 of 329 (110041)
05-23-2004 8:51 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
05-23-2004 6:43 PM


jar, I like Jerry and Pat, but kind of hear what your saying, or something like that(Prosperity gospel?). I see Jerry and Pat though fighting the race, overcomers, too me they are great men of God like Oral Roberts, etc...If you have nothin else you can just listen to Oral give his commentary of the New Testament. I see these men as Great Men of God. Have you ever listen to Jerry preach the gospel. When he took over the reigns of the 700 club from Jim Baker(PTL), he didn't profit from it, but turned it over to Pat Robertson, like have you ever listened to the 700 club, etc...
P.S. Like what do you think of Mother Theresa, do you feel she was fighting the fight too, loving the unlovable, we all are fighting the fight too, in our own way, think Jesus was saying to love as he loved, not as the world loved, and he would call you his friend, so I'd have to disagree he would get drunk with the boys, cause that would be wallowing in the mire, think the verse was more about loving the brethren, not loving the world, cause in revelations it says to let the filthy be filthy still, and let the righteous be righteous still, and God will reward accordingly, but agree he does search the heart, so kind of hear what your saying, he does want us to love one another, your neighbor, but not as the world loves, just my take on it, he loves the widow, the orphan, the unlovable, etc...If you ever get a chance, think you'd enjoy reading a book, A Man Called Norman, its likely not in print, but you'd likely enjoy it, cause I kinda agree with its all about the agapa love, having a servants heart, to be about what he is about, rather than trying to get even, instead of having a spirit of forgiveness, etc...
http://www.orm.cc/new_testament.html
This message has been edited by whatever, 05-23-2004 08:12 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 329 (110065)
05-24-2004 12:44 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
05-23-2004 12:29 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
As I see it, there are three things needed, to love GOD, to love others and to love yourself.
John 14:6 Jesus says "I am the way, the truth and the life. No man comes to the Father but by me." I John 5: 11, 12 says, This is the record that God has given to us eternal life and this life is in his son. He that has the son has life and he that has not the son of God has not life. Then verse 13 says "These thing have I written to you that believe on Jesus Christ, that you may know that you have eternal life.
The word "Christ" is in the word "Christian." Without him you're not a true Christian. How does one get him? By receiving him. John 1:12 says" But as many as received him (Christ), to them have I given the power to become the sons of God, even to them who believe on his name."
Jesus, the Christ also said to Nicodemus, "Except a man be born again (born from above) he cannot see the kingdom of God." He goes on to explain how it's being born of his spirit. When one receives Christ as saviour, the person is receiving the spirit of Christ.
In John 3:16 we read,"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten (born) son that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life." So here believing in him is requred.
So we see here, by the words of Jesus the Christ himself that there's more to it than loving God, others and self. Please remember also, the above are not my ideas. They are the fundamentals of what the Bible actually say to be a bonafide Christian who has eternal life and enters into his kingdom.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 05-23-2004 12:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 19 of 329 (110069)
05-24-2004 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Buzsaw
05-24-2004 12:44 AM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
Many believe as you do.
And I would agree that a believe in Jesus as part of the Triumverate is defining characteristic of being a Christian.
edited to add second paragraph.
This message has been edited by jar, 05-23-2004 11:58 PM

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Petra
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 329 (110085)
05-24-2004 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by purpledawn
05-23-2004 6:25 PM


to purpledawn
quote:
A true Christian is someone who has completely entrusted his life to Jesus Christ.
did you miss this part?
if you didn't, which part of it didn't you understand?
(not throwing virtual rocks, friendly smile see: )
Of course you know when you're a true Christian.
If someone completely entrusts his/her life to Jesus Christ, he/she is a true Christian. And then he/she will know he/she is, in life as well as in death.
The only one who can truely judge a person on that, is God. Other's can judge a person too, but that has no true meaning. At least, not to me. People can think of me what they want. They cannot look into my (or anybody's) heart.

1Cor 1:25 "Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by purpledawn, posted 05-23-2004 6:25 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 23 by Percy, posted 05-24-2004 9:01 AM Petra has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 21 of 329 (110098)
05-24-2004 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Petra
05-24-2004 5:09 AM


Re: to purpledawn
IrishRockhound wrote:
quote:
The general idea seems to be that, for Christian fundamentalists, anyone who does not agree with their interpretation of the bible or creationism is 'not a true Christian'. This has come up in several threads, usually in relation to theistic evolutionists. In order to clarify for everyone interested, I believe that some kind of definition would be helpful (and could possibly prevent inadvertant insults).
Petra wrote:
quote:
A true Christian is someone who has completely entrusted his life to Jesus Christ.
No I didn't miss that, but it isn't visible when a Christian posts and you said only God can judge that.
So by what criteria can we mortals judge?
Can we expect a certain level of decent behavior to go along with that acceptance?
By your definition all Christians making that claim are true Christians whether they believe in evolution or creationism, or a young earth or old earth; correct?
If true, then Christians should respect each other and shouldn't be slinging mud, right?
Kinda goes back to the post with the footballer and tennis. If a Christian says he has entrusted his life to Jesus Christ, but his behavior is deplorable, doesn't that negate his claim?
If I claim to be a good writer, but my posts are filled with misspellings, lack of punctuation, run-on sentences, and no capitalizaion; wouldn't you question my claim?
If one who has entrusted his life to Jesus Christ should act Christlike, what is Christlike?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Petra, posted 05-24-2004 5:09 AM Petra has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Petra, posted 05-29-2004 4:47 PM purpledawn has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 22 of 329 (110099)
05-24-2004 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
05-23-2004 12:29 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
That doesn't make you a true christian, just a good one.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22389
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 23 of 329 (110100)
05-24-2004 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Petra
05-24-2004 5:09 AM


Re: to purpledawn
Petra writes:
The only one who can truely judge a person on that, is God. Other's can judge a person too, but that has no true meaning. At least, not to me. People can think of me what they want. They cannot look into my (or anybody's) heart.
It occasionally happens here that one Christian claims Christians who hold other views are not true Christians. Would you agree this is an invalid argument?
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 24 of 329 (110102)
05-24-2004 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by purpledawn
05-23-2004 4:00 PM


Re: More Info
We are forgiven of our sins through him, not through some ritual.
Also eye for an eye does not apply any more.
Also you become rich in the kingdom when you become poor for him, i.e. giving up your worldly possesions to follow him.
Being "Christlike" to me is all about the true Love that he had for all of us, and trying to imitate that. The first 2 commandments apply here.
Forgiving people of their sins against you, so in turn can be forgiven.
But remember if you break one commandment, you have broken them all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by purpledawn, posted 05-23-2004 4:00 PM purpledawn has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 25 of 329 (110103)
05-24-2004 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Trixie
05-23-2004 4:23 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
IMHO that would be the belief that Jesus Christ was God made flesh and that, as Jesus, he died so that our sins might be forgiven.
That is the main requirment to be a true Christian.
Lets not get "true" Christian mixed up with "good" Christian.
Anyone who accepts him as his savior, becomes a true Cristian, the rest of it will then be judged by God.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 26 of 329 (110104)
05-24-2004 9:16 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Petra
05-23-2004 5:41 PM


- belief in creationism?
Why should you not? If one can believe some theory like evolution, one might just as well believe in creationism. But that doesn’t make you a true-er Christian.
Amen
- regular Church-going habits?
I personally want to visit God’s house every week. Every week there’s something to learn from the Word of God. If you do not go, where will you learn out of the Word? One could go to a bible study. We have them too, and we have them at home with our brothers and sisters (in the Lord)
Amen to that also, but let me add that, our Pastor teaches us that the real church is outside the doors of the church. This is where you get to practice true Christianity. Its all to easy to be a Christian in church. But a good place to learn as you mentioned.
And yes I practice what I preach.

This message is a reply to:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 27 of 329 (110105)
05-24-2004 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Percy
05-24-2004 9:01 AM


Re: to purpledawn
Not for us to decide.

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 28 of 329 (110106)
05-24-2004 9:24 AM


I would also like to add, that being a true christian is also being Baptised by the Holy Spirit, and by water so that you may become born again.
Acts 1
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth."
When you let the Holy Spirit guide you in your life, and help you with every desicion you make, you are living the True Christian life.
To me this is the part that alot of "Christian" religions arre missing. It is a very small percentage indeed who recieve the Holy Spirit.
If you believe in Jesus, the you would look for his teachings to come true in you. How you find the Holy Spirit is different for everyone I believe. But it is a slim chance that you will experience it, anless you are looking.

  
MonkeyBoy
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 329 (110113)
05-24-2004 10:00 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by jar
05-23-2004 6:43 PM


Yes!
I wish I could high-five you, jar. I am in complete agreement.
But I have a general question; I have seen the term "true christian" tossed around and I wonder why not just say christian? If you say christian, isn't the implication made that you are a christian in title only, and that self applied? Isn't it like saying you are a true man? Either you are or you aren't.
All that needs to be established is a definition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 05-23-2004 6:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 30 of 329 (110119)
05-24-2004 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by MonkeyBoy
05-24-2004 10:00 AM


Re: Yes!
I find the term True Christian usually comes up when someone wants to seperate a Christian out from the rest.
For example, there is no doubt that Hitler was a Christian who believed completely that he was doing Christian acts killing Jews and that Nazi Germany was a Christian Nation.
Now that is highly offensive to some Christians. So many respond by saying "He was not a TRUE Christian.
And this is where the definition of what makes a Christian becomes important.
Did Hitler profess Christ? Yes he did.
Did he believe that he was doing Christian works? Yes he did.
So based on most of the answers here so far, he qualifies as a Christian.
That is one reason that I believe it is necessary to move beyond a simple definition of Christianity to one of Godly. If you look at the two commandments that I mentioned in my first post in this thread, perhaps I can explain further.
When asked what the two great commandments were, Jesus responded
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
Here, Jesus is not speaking to Proto-Christians. Here, Jesus is speaking to the Jews, and to all other groups as well, to Pagan and Gentiles, Jews and Proto-Christians. Here, Jesus is saying "This is it in a nutshell. This is how to live your life."
And under those conditions, Hitler failed. Whether he was a Christian or not, he failed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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