What is a True Christian?

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If your christianity doesn't cause a riot - then you are a luke warm compromiser who cares more about the praise of men than of God.

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You scare me. What do you want to do with these lukewarm compromisers? Just stay the hell away from me

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I really don't care what non christians think of me, but if any god damn fundementalist says one critical word about me then I will PROVE from scripture that YOU are the worst piece of God damn shit on the face of the Earth.

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Well, I am not a Christian, but I do believe in God. Since no one can say anything critical of oyu, then you are totally correct in everything that you say, right? Your way or the highway.
Can God shit and then damn it?Take a pill, dude.

Well, do you consider yourself christian now? Six times - I guess that means you doubted atleast five times. I talk of the fruit of the spirit. In Galatians is says the fruit of the spirit fulfills the law. Christ said that love fulfills the law - I talk of that fruit he spoke of.You see, I am not going to tell you that you have recieved the Holy Spirit. I would advise you reading and understanding those things in the NT though. I did not mention you. What I did was make a statement. I said "surely IF I have this fruit I can do no murder". In other words, if I have that thing Christ said, then surely I couldn't do murder. I hope you enjoyed exalting yourself. As for soldiers in Iraq, I have nothing to say about this. I am too ignorant of the spirit in the air, and the plans of the most high. May I refrain from judgement?

And athiests never argue?All this deviation is exactly what thiests want. We were warned of it.I stick to my statement, religion is from man, not God.
There is the Chirch of man, and the Church of Christ.
There are very few True Christians indeed.edit, meant to say athiests.This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 05-26-2004 08:33 AM

Here you go...Falwell and Robertson, verbatim from the transcript. "The thing" Falwell is referring to is the 9/11 suicide bombing of the WTC: To be fair, Falwell later apologized and Robertson distanced himself from his statements. However, this was only because there was national exposure of the comments and public condemnation of them by representatives of some of the groups he named.The fact that they would hold such an opinion and make such a hateful and bigoted statement on the record in the first place just shows their true colors as hate mongerers and anti-Americans.

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Multiple wives were sanctioned by nearly all cultures back then nor did God forbid it. Biblically it was not considered debauchery. What was forbidden was for Jews to marry heathen wives.

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Well, then God was encouraging debauchery back then if he allowed multiple wives. Having multiple wives is pretty debauched, wouldn't you say? Just like owning slaves and genocide, which are also endorsed and encouraged by God.Oh, and can you please back up your claim that most cultures allowed multiple wives back then?At S&G, the people in town demanded that the travelling angels come outside so they could "know them". A poor way to treat strangers, to be sure. Instead, Lot sends his poor virgin daughters out to be raped by the mob. Yet another example of the low status of women in the Bible. The angels destroy S&G.Then Lot's daughters get him drunk and have sex with him, which makes incest apparently OK with God.Num 31:17
Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.Num 31:18
But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.Deut 20:14
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself; and thou shalt eat the spoil of thine enemies, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.Zech 14:2
For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished;Deut 21:11-13
And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife;Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house, and she shall shave her head, and pare her nails;And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife.Why would they want virgins if it wasn't to rape them?Why do they want all the women and children if it isn't to enslave them?What is happeining in the last schenario if it isn't a man picking out a beautiful prisoner of war, taking her home with him, and eventually raping her after marrying her?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-25-2004 08:46 AM

< opens up his Bible and reveals the Truth.I believe you took things out of context completely there.
Jesus was speaking of Prophets, not Christians.A Tree and Its Fruit15"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. 16By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. 19Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
21"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'This only further re-inforces what I am trying to say, and yes indeed does show that the statement at the bottom of message 46 is not from Christian like thinking. He will be judged by that.See message 73.

Okey dokey!Pat Robertson/ Racist/Bigot. "Individual Christians are the only ones really---and Jewish people, those who trust God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob--are the only ones that are qualified to have the reign, because hopefully, they will be governed by God and submit to Him."--Pat Robertson, defending his stance that only Christians and Jews are fit to hold public office, The 700 Club, 01/11/85."I never said that in my life...I never said only Christians and Jews. I never said that." --Pat Robertson, Time magazine, when confronted regarding his statement on The 700 Club on 01/11/85."When I said during my presidential bid that I would only bring Christians and Jews into the government, I hit a firestorm. `What do you mean?' the media challenged me. `You're not going to bring atheists into the government? How dare you maintain that those who believe in the Judeo-Christian values are better qualified to govern America than Hindus and Muslims?' My simple answer is, `Yes, they are.'" "The New World Order," page 218(talking about apartheid South Africa) "I think 'one man, one vote,' just unrestricted democracy, would not be wise. There needs to be some kind of protection for the minority which the white people represent now, a minority, and they need and have a right to demand a protection of their rights."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 3/18/92"The feminist agenda is not about equal rights for women. It is about a socialist, anti-family political movement that encourages women to leave their husbands, kill their children, practice witchcraft, destroy capitalism, and become lesbians." -- Pat Robertson, fundraising letter, 1992"NOW is saying that in order to be a woman, you've got to be a lesbian."--Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," 12/3/97"You see what happened in 1962. They took prayer out of the schools. The next year the Supreme Court ordered Bible reading taken from the schools. And then progressing, liberals, most of them atheistic educators, have pushed to remove all religion from the lives of children...The people who wrote the "Humanist Manifesto" and their pupils and their disciples are in charge of education in America today." --Pat Robertson, "The 700 Club," January 13, 1995"The key in terms of mental ability is chess. There's never been a woman Grand Master chess player. Once you get one, then I'll buy some of the feminism..." (According to the Chess Federation of the U.S. there were already two women Grand Masters at that time, both from Georgia. Since Robertson's gaffe, three more women became Grand Masters)I hope I live to see the day when, as in the early days of our country, we won't have any public schools. The churches will have taken them over again and Christians will be running them. What a happy day that will be!
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell, America Can Be Saved, 1979 pp. 52-53, from Albert J. Menendez and Edd Doerr, The Great Quotations on Religious FreedomThe Bible is the inerrant ... word of the living God. It is absolutely infallible,without error in all matters pertaining to faith and practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history, etc.
-- Jerry Falwell, Finding Inner Peace and StrengthThe ACLU is to Christians what the American Nazi party is to Jews.
-- Rev. Jerry Falwell (attributed: source unknown)That's the same ACLU that helped him win a religious freedom case in Virginia! I guess he is just like a Nazi-loving Jew.

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Thanks, Ned and Asgara. My response to this is that I believe Falwell was remiss in making an apology atol.

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Wow.all I can say is...wow.Are you really so filled with hate and fear?

Go ahead Monkey and criticize me - no problem.Presently, I am containing an inner rage against fundementalist christians. They are to blame for misrepresenting God and the message of the N.T.I am monitoring this debate while preparing my next topic which is tentatively titled "What God Thinks of Fundementalism".I recently read an excerpt in a book called "Lucifer Rising", which is a collection of interviews with satanists. One of these fine individuals is under indictment for burning down 8 churches and is under 24 hour police surveillance. Someone noticed that none of the 8 churches burned were fundementalist churches, when they asked him why he replied:
" because Satan forbid me to burn down fundementalist churches.....he wants them to prosper because they put people in bondage.....fundementalist christianity is the only thing about christianity that I like...."

I think that interesting that the fundementalists churches probably are under Gods protection (Satan would say they are under bondage as if this is a negative thing), I suppose the fundementalist pray the OUR Father lead us not in to temptation and deliver us from evil, so I'm leaning its about them fundementals like staying under the winged protection of the Father, etc...P.S. I on the other hand think the Father is searching for those to worship him in spirit and truth, too, however, I just don't see Satan rejoicing in people like Jerry Falwell, Oral Roberts, and Pat Robertson, Chuck Swindol, so see it more as Gods protection. It does say to put on the full armour of God, and the Word is the Sword, so wondering what is the problem, it might be the other churches are not putting on the full armour of God, like where it talks about quenching the firey darts of the enemy, etc...This message has been edited by whatever, 05-25-2004 11:07 PM

I'm sorry riVeRraT I don't show much respect to those on this forum by firing random shots: I just don't have the time to sustain interaction with these topics.riVeRraT wrote:

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And thiests never argue?

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I don't know whether you meant to write "atheists never argue"? Probably the most telling thing about atheists is that we are all pretty much well in agreeance on most philosophical matters. Notice how on this forum, atheists and agnostics alike relatively fluidly coordinate their responses to theists. Contrast this to hilarious threads like this one where Christians are at each others throats about miniscule issues. And there are many others.My own studies have demonstrated that people within the same churches differ greatly in their beliefs. As I said, you guys quite simply don't seem to get any objective instructions from your God. And your ambiguous, vague, and contradictory scared book is of little help.For atheists and agnostics, life is what you make of it. I think we all agree that trying to be nice to other people is a big part of it.riVeRraT wrote:

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I stick to my statement, religion is from man, not God.
There is the Chirch of man, and the Church of Christ.
There are very few True Christians indeed.

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I am ceaseless amused by this "we are not religious" distinction. I know it is an attempt by some fundamentalist Christians to distance themselves from the mainstream Christian churches. You owe, of course, everything about your religion and your sacred book to these churches and their history.Try looking up a definition of "religion" and explain how your beleifs do not constitute a religion.Every other "True Christian" can articulate many reasons (very often the same reasons as yours) as to why they believe that you aren't a true Christian. Just read this thread.Edited for typos, typos, typosThis message has been edited by Gilgamesh, 05-26-2004 01:55 AM

Mike wrote:

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Well, do you consider yourself christian now? Six times - I guess that means you doubted atleast five times

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I'm always up for a test. I never ceased doubting because I was able to see and experience religion for what it really is.Mike wrote:

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I did not mention you. What I did was make a statement. I said "surely IF I have this fruit I can do no murder". In other words, if I have that thing Christ said, then surely I couldn't do murder. I hope you enjoyed exalting yourself. As for soldiers in Iraq, I have nothing to say about this. I am too ignorant of the spirit in the air, and the plans of the most high. May I refrain from judgement?

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Well this spirit that you and your book talks about is merely a state of mind, sometimes initially prompted by a temporal lobe experience (often induced by a Christian conversion experience), and sustained by constant thought re-inforcement derived from ongoing indoctrination. I know what I'm talking about: I've been there and I've done that.I'm just happy that you too have some way of finding murder abhorent. This is not the case for all Christians, of course.

Yet you stated that people can be filled by a demon spirit that makes them think it is the holy spirit.How do you honestly know that you aren't being deceived. Those that are demon spirit filled must think they are following the "true" spirit also.

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Asgara
"Embrace the pain, spank your inner moppet, whatever....but get over it"http://asgarasworld.bravepages.com

Such is the nature of the religious game. Holy spirit, demon spirit; true God, false God; we're right, your wrong. And so it continues, with none having anything close to objectively testable truth other than the scientists.... 60% of whom do not believe in a God.Don't trust the validity of science? Try invoking your God for transportation next time you wish to fly overseas. See how far you get.From the outside looking in, it appears that all theists are wrong. Any given theist is often wrong for the exact same reasons he/she believes all the other theists are wrong.From the outside looking in, all these religions just seem pretty dam silly.Edited for typos!This message has been edited by Gilgamesh, 05-26-2004 02:13 AM

Those that live in glass houses....Just rattling your chains, WT. You are very passionate, so you should expect others to respond in kind.I and interested in you new topic regarding Fundamentalism. But if I may make a suggestion; start the thread with a clear definition of fundamentalism. While you're at it, you also may want to define Satanist; I'm pretty sure that Satanists do not believe in a devil; in other words, they are not 'devil-worshippers'.Back on topic: Your rage against those that call themselves Christians that are, in your opinion, misrepresenting God, is understandable.
On the other hand, I believe in God, but when someone displays behavior that seems to be against the very nature of God (whatever that is), I let it go. The reason is, I totally believe that God can take care of him/her/itself. God doesn't need me to stick of and defend him.
WT, please let me know when you post your topic regarding fundamentalism.ThanksThe Monk

Interesting.So even though Galatians 5:19-23 reads:

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Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmities , strife, jealousy , outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness , faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

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I can't extrapolate from that to use "You shall know them by their fruit" and apply it to Christian behavior unless they are Prophets?(BTW if anyone noticed I typed John the first time I used this scripture, by bad. Too many books open!)

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A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.