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Author | Topic: What is a True Christian? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
More pointless points. lol.
Just read the Bible to find out what a true Christian is. You know I guess the real thing is, that a real Christian should never try to judge if someone else is Christian. Only oneself. Sorry, I meant to say athiests. Yes they do argue, just not about God, because they don't believe in him. I do not owe anything to main stream churches other than the fact that they kept me away from God for many years. I had to find God on my own, because I could not stand the likes of Jerry falwell, the catholic church and company.It is only now that I found a church that I like, and it is because of the people there, not any set of beliefs. Still I watch very closely. Believing in God is a freedom, and sets you free.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I corrected myself. I was told second hand of this experience, so I am not really sure if they thought it was God or not.
It was a wierd story, but came from a pretty credible person IMO. He saw someone who was filled, and asked God if it was true, and God put the thought in his head that it wasn't from God. This is where I got this idea from. The moral of that point is to be careful, and always check in with God.He does answer all prayers, and protects you from evil, after all. I can only really speak for myself.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
I don't know about that one really. It was written that Jesus said the only way to the father is through him.
Maybe at the pearly Gates you'll get a second chance based on who you were in life, I don't know. Thats up to God. But I agree with you in the fact that there are many a great athiests, who are genuinly nice people, and deserve to "go to heaven". All my closest friends are, and I Love them, no matter what they choose to believe in.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
No you can't. Here is why.
Prophets are judged soley on the accuracy of thier prophecy. Thats why any prophet who bears "bad fruit" is not really a prophet. This is what he was talking about. Also, we are all sinners, wait let me correct that by saying, we are born into sin, and it dwells within us. We don't have a choice about that. The only one who was pure was Jesus. He said that if we even think about sinning, that we then commited the sin, thereby making it impossible for us to be sin free. Only he could do that.So if a Christian were a tree, he would always bear a bad fruit, then making the way you extrapolated that scripture, impossible. That is why it only pertains to prophets. The importance of knowing if a prophet is true or not, is evedent.
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Well this spirit that you and your book talks about is merely a state of mind, sometimes initially prompted by a temporal lobe experience (often induced by a Christian conversion experience), and sustained by constant thought re-inforcement derived from ongoing indoctrination. I know what I'm talking about: I've been there and I've done that.
Was that what it was for you?You don't talk like someone who has had the truth revealed to himself.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4457 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
I'm sorry I took so long to get back to this but you guys post so much in only a day or so... I'd like to respond to one of WillowTree's earlier posts, but seeing as the topic has moved on since then, I'll include it in this response instead.
quote: This was in no way directed at you personally. I post on another forum of the same vein as EvC, and I have seen this pattern there a few times now. I was merely speaking from experience.
quote: I was expressing my opinion. Surely I am allowed to do this? I read your posts and, in my opinion, the views you expressed were distinctly intolerant and hateful towards non-Christians. As I am a non-Christian, I decided to point this out. Also, as the basic principle of the teachings of Christ is to love rather than hate, I concluded that you were not truly following those teachings, and stated as such
quote: WT, as a non-Christian, I don't know and don't care about the Sermon on the Mount. So saying that I believe anything about it is largely irrelevent.
quote: Again, irrelevent to a non-Christian.
quote: I simply stated that Christ taught to love rather than hate, the whole "love thy neighbour" thing. Am I wrong? Is that not the basic message? Christians like you tell me that it is all the time, usually when trying to convert me.
quote: Irrelevent.
quote: That is, of course, your opinion. As it is off-topic I will refrain from commenting.
quote: I never said that; please do not misrepresent me. My post was entirely in reference to you, if I remember correctly.
quote: Also irrelevent to a non-Christian.
quote: Then you will not care what I think of you. I should probably point out that insults and cursing are not very Christian-like either. (I was a Catholic once, so I do remember something about how it goes.) Anyway, on to the actual topic...
quote: Here we are in agreement - I also think that fundamentalist Christians misrepresent the message of the New Testament. I sometimes feel that they missed the point of it all, but mostly they just scare me. The Rock Hound
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4457 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
RiverRat, please don't get into the whole 'revealed truth' thing here - we'll be debating for years if we do. What if the truth was revealed to someone, but they decided that it was from something other than god? What if the truth was revealed to someone, and they thought it was a pack of lies?
The problem with that is that it's too subjective to be useful in a definition. However, 'reading the bible to find out what a true Christian is' may be more useful - are there any passages in particular you could point us at? The Rock Hound
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Unseul Inactive Member |
Satanists dont actually believe in god or the devil (more of a sort of nature red in tooth and claw force). This of course is using the definition of people that follow the documented religion Satanism. All that is really required is a belief in the occult nothing more, and of course agreement with their doctorines (most of which are quite good). In fact when i was looking through all the various religions i found Satanism to be one of the ones that could suit me better, cept i dont believe in the occult, so bang goes that one.
Unseul Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life....
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
MMM, the revealed truth. Ok, I agree, but I have talked to many people who feel exactly the way I do about it.
But your right, it is a personal thing. If I was to point to the bible to explain to you what a true christian is, we would find out that it is between God and oneself. Not for us to judge. Alot could be said about the word "true" in true christian. By definition, it is someone who believes in Jesus, and accepts him as a savior of our sins. IMO "true" christians are just as screwd up as the rest of the world, they just accept Jesus. The amount of good you do, or Love you show is irrelevant to whether you are a true christian or not. Trying to be christ-like doesn't make you any more a true christian, it only builds up your treasures in heaven. This pretty much sums it up: John 3:16"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[1] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. Look at the words "not perish". That scares me.So believing in him, makes you christian, and gives you eternal life. About judgement and truth: Romans 2 God's Righteous Judgment 1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things.2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? 5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God "will give to each person according to what he has done."[1] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism. 12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. This is the truth I speak of.It also explains judgement, which has nothing to do with being a true christian or not. I Love the part about the law (truth) being written on your heart.This is why when we do good things for people, we feel good inside about it. When we give ourselves to God, this law becomes a greater feeling, and then the truth is revealed in a such a powerful way, that it no longer is just a word describing whether something is true or false. It becomes a feeling within, a core feeling of our very existance. The truth is shown to us, and then we are one with God. We can also then be able to see untruths. Everything becomes very clear. People can no longer lie to you, because you will be able to tell, because the Holy Spirit is then guiding you. The Holy Spirit is truth. Then you are free. It is to me, incredible. This message has been edited by riVeRraT, 05-26-2004 10:04 AM
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riVeRraT Member (Idle past 437 days) Posts: 5788 From: NY USA Joined: |
Main Entry: satanism
Pronunciation: 'sA-t&n-"i-z&m Function: noun Usage: often capitalized 1 : innate wickedness : DIABOLISM 2 : obsession with or affinity for evil; specifically : the worship of Satan marked by the travesty of Christian rites Just thought I'd point that out to you, for your benifit.
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4457 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Hmm... Ok then. I declare the first requirement of a 'true' Christian to be this:
A belief in Jesus Christ as the divine Messiah. That sound good to everyone? Now, do we need any other more specific requirements? (BTW thanks for the feedback RiverRat)
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IrishRockhound Member (Idle past 4457 days) Posts: 569 From: Ireland Joined: |
Er... no. That's not entirely correct. Unseul is actually right in his description - you seem to be presenting the conventional Christian view of Satanism.
From religioustolerance.org:
quote: Specifically from fundie Christians:
quote: Satanism is no more evil or twisted than any other alternative religion - except it tends to get really terrible PR.
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MonkeyBoy Inactive Member |
That's what I thought; that Satanism was Humanism with rituals and symbols (if you use a loose enough definition of Humanism). I too, buy into the vast majority of it except that I do not believe in actual magic.
Only the fantasy magic that in D & D and M:TG.
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purpledawn Member (Idle past 3478 days) Posts: 4453 From: Indiana Joined: |
quote: Can I say:
quote: Would this pertain to regular Christians?Would Christians still bear bad fruit in this instance? Or are Christians today more like Gurney's 5-in-1 apple tree. Five different varieties from sweet to sour on one tree. A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
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Gilgamesh Inactive Member |
riVeRraT wrote:
Just read the Bible to find out what a true Christian is. I'm probably having a hack at the wrong person, because people like you and Jar seem like genuinely nice persons... All Christians read and quote from the same book. All back up their stance with passages from the Bible. Was it Shakespeare who said that you can find justification for any act in the Bible? I do acknowledge that there is sometimes described a Christian ideal that sounds extremely admirable. Jar articulates an approach to spiritual life that even an atheist would consider admirable and something probably like what an "all good" God would require. But then there are others on this forum, who call themselves Christians, quote from the Bible and are people who demonstrate reprehensible character traits. If it was easy to find out what a true Christian is, from the Bible or elsewhere, this thread would be finished by now. Let's try a definition: Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary 1ne who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus I believe that makes all of you True Christians. Sorry, I meant to say athiests. Yes they do argue, just not about God, because they don't believe in him. Yep, sure we do. About fun stuff, mostly to gain knowledge or to intellectually exercise. We don't bicker in the same way theists do: "I'm right, your wrong and you are going to burn in hell" because we realise that the evidence points to the fact that life is simply what you make of it. It's a subjective thing, and there is little point about arguing about those things. Of course, from the outside, religion appears very subjective also. I do not owe anything to main stream churches other than the fact that they kept me away from God for many years. I had to find God on my own, because I could not stand the likes of Jerry falwell, the catholic church and company. It is only now that I found a church that I like, and it is because of the people there, not any set of beliefs. Still I watch very closely. Like I said, Christianity wouldn't exist today if it wasn't for the history of those mainstream churches. Your Bible was cannonised, evolved and translated by those very same churches. Your God, as you see it, was conceived by those churches. I can understand why fundies distance themselves from such churches: because of their despicable history and recent acknowledgement of the allegorical nature of Genesis. I respect your path through faith: your appear to have shed some of the burdens usually associated with Christianity and are justifiably wary of organised religion. The world would be a better place and religious intolerance non-existence if religion resided solely within oneself. Believing in God is a freedom, and sets you free. All ex-Chritian atheists claim the exact opposite. You are internalising your God, and finding a belief system to accomodate your requirements. Undoutably, this would feel very liberating. Talk to some of the fundie nutters on this thread though and they will attempt to devour you alive for this approach. For them it is all about submission: supposedly to God, but invaribaly to a church and it's elders. I think you know about this stuff!
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