Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
1 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Jesus/God the same?
ex libres
Member (Idle past 6932 days)
Posts: 46
From: USA
Joined: 01-14-2004


Message 181 of 183 (110502)
05-25-2004 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by doctrbill
01-27-2004 10:27 PM


You will have two possible responses. Either you will believe the word of god or you won't. Those who don't usually have a bias against anything supernatural and consequently remain in darkness. All I can do is show you what the word says. Your arguement is with the bible and Christ, not me. Here are the passages I know of.
Christ as God
John 1
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
John 1
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 4
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
John 8
23 And he said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I am from above: ye are of this world; I am not of this world.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
25 Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.
John 10
30 I and my Father are one.
John 14
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.
Micah 5
2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.
Matthew 1
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Colossians 1
15 [Christ] Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
God Always God and Always the Only God
Deuteronomy 4
35 Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that the LORD he is God; there is none else beside him.
36 Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.
37 And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;
38 To drive out nations from before thee greater and mightier than thou art, to bring thee in, to give thee their land for an inheritance, as it is this day.
39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Isaiah 44
6 Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.
7 And who, as I, shall call, and shall declare it, and set it in order for me, since I appointed the ancient people? and the things that are coming, and shall come, let them shew unto them.
8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God beside me? yea, there is no God; I know not any.
Isaiah 43
10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.
Psalm 90
2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by doctrbill, posted 01-27-2004 10:27 PM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by doctrbill, posted 05-25-2004 9:40 PM ex libres has not replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2765 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 182 of 183 (110516)
05-25-2004 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by ex libres
05-25-2004 7:15 PM


ex libres writes:
You will have two possible responses.
There is a third possible response.
Either you will believe the word of god or you won't.
First: You must establish that the Bible IS the Word of God. That question was being debated in the post to which you responded. You have offered nothing to convince me that it is.
Second: It is not as simple as believing or not. There are hundreds of conflicting interpretations of the Bible; all of them concocted by "believers." I have my interpretation. You have your interpretation. Through this debate we may come to see, if nothing else, that there ARE a variety of interpretations possible.
Now, to the point:
To say that Christ is God may be accurate. To say that Jehovah is God may be accurate. But to say that Jesus is Jehovah is raises more questions than it answers.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by ex libres, posted 05-25-2004 7:15 PM ex libres has not replied

  
banjah5
Inactive Member


Message 183 of 183 (110690)
05-26-2004 1:31 PM


My opinion is that jesus was a god, an ALHYM. However, he never claimed to be the god. He also never called his father jehovah OR YHVH.
As has been pointed out the authors of the gospels misquote the old testament and take many things out of context.
About the New Testament: Marcion's version of the New Testament only contained Paul's letters and 2/3rds of Luke. This was 140AD. Books were added and removed so much that one loses count. The NT was canonized 2 centuries AFTER the crucifixion. What took so long? Thats more than enough time for people to inject their ideas and personal philosophy into. That is hardly the work of the Holy Spirit...so much for inspiration.
About the Septuagint: The Dead Sea Scrolls show both Masoretic and the LXX text. This shows that the writings had some acceptance at the time. In addition, some of the Apocrypha was found there. Which shows they were both in circulation.
I think that alot of myth surrounds the LXX and it was more than likely taken from another Hebrew manuscript other than the Masoretic.

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024