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Author Topic:   The Religious Nature of Evolution, or Lack Thereof
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 151 of 212 (113144)
06-07-2004 2:23 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by DarkStar
06-07-2004 2:10 AM


Not quite sure where you get your information
If you'd read my posts on the subject, you'd know that I was talking about how atheists are underrepresnted in prisons.
The obvious conclusion is that atheists, in general, commit less crimes than other people. They have more successful marriages, too, based on the rate of divorce by religious affiliation.
The crusaders, marching under the banner of the cross, slaughtered innocents by the tens of thousands. Stalin, a naturalist, slaughtered millions.
Hrm, what do you suppose the most significant difference between those two situations is? The individual beliefs of the participants, or the fact that the crucaders had swords and Stalin had access to machine guns?
I have never met a christian mass murderer. Why? Because they don't exist, that is an oxymoron.
True Scotsman Fallacy. If you're just going to define "Christian" as "one who doesn't commit crimes", then obviously, the only people you're going to recognize as Christian are those who haven't committed any crimes.
Me, when someone expresses a religious identification, I take them at face value. To do otherwise is to commit a fallacy of equiviocation.
Anyone can put on a label but that doesn't make the label true.
Anyone can define words, I guess. You're telling me that the thousands of Christians in prison really aren't, despite their honest and impassioned insistence that they are?
I don't know any other way of determining what religion people belong to than to ask them. Maybe you have a better way? Mental telepathy or something? But if you're just going to sit there and commit the True Scotsman Fallacy, don't waste our time, you know?
This message has been edited by crashfrog, 06-07-2004 01:24 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by DarkStar, posted 06-07-2004 2:10 AM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 1:42 AM crashfrog has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 152 of 212 (113497)
06-08-2004 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by crashfrog
06-07-2004 2:23 AM


Think, baby, Think!
You're filling out a questionnaire and you come to the section that requires you to state your sex. You're a male but you fill in the space where it says female. Are you truly a female or did you just call yourself one?
Someone asks you what your sexual preference is and you tell them that you are gay when in reality you are heterosexual. Did you instantly become gay or are you still straight?
Think, baby, think.....labels don't mean shit if you don't live up to the expectation of that label. Sorry for the expletive!
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by crashfrog, posted 06-07-2004 2:23 AM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:47 AM DarkStar has replied
 Message 156 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2004 2:02 AM DarkStar has replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 212 (113498)
06-08-2004 1:46 AM


Getting back on track now
The religious nature of evolution, or lack thereof......
How many evolutionists in this forum are of the mind that a god, any god, guided creation through the process of evolution and does this in any way support the idea that evolution is a religion?
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:51 AM DarkStar has replied
 Message 157 by JonF, posted 06-08-2004 9:42 AM DarkStar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 154 of 212 (113499)
06-08-2004 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by DarkStar
06-08-2004 1:42 AM


Re: Think, baby, Think!
Hitler said time and again that he was a Christian in a Christian Nazi Germany doing Christian work killing Jews and other Lessor creatures.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 1:42 AM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 9:04 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 155 of 212 (113500)
06-08-2004 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by DarkStar
06-08-2004 1:46 AM


Re: Getting back on track now
As a Christain I believe that God created the underlying rules but do not believe he guided Evolution. Once he began things, all the rules we are working to learn existed. All else simply happened. He did not create man, most likely did not create the Earth or solar system. He started it off and is enjoying learning what happens.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 1:46 AM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 9:23 PM jar has not replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1457 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 156 of 212 (113502)
06-08-2004 2:02 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by DarkStar
06-08-2004 1:42 AM


Think, baby, think.....labels don't mean shit if you don't live up to the expectation of that label.
Who defines those expectations, though? You?
The Bible? Which Bible? Which passages? They don't quite all agree, you know.
There's a bazillion ways to be Christian, and I know this because there's a bazillion different types of Christian. You may claim that they're not "true Christians", but the funny thing is, they make the exact same claim about you.
Why should I believe them over you? How can you expect me to believe that you of all people are a Christian?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 1:42 AM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 9:19 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 158 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 157 of 212 (113571)
06-08-2004 9:42 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by DarkStar
06-08-2004 1:46 AM


Re: Getting back on track now
ow many evolutionists in this forum are of the mind that a god, any god, guided creation through the process of evolution
I thinkl it's possible. It certainly can't be tested scientifically, it's a matter of faith. [/qs] and does this in any way support the idea that evolution is a religion?[/qs]
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 1:46 AM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 9:09 PM JonF has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 158 of 212 (113690)
06-08-2004 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
06-08-2004 1:47 AM


Hitler a Christian? Oh the lies that people will believe.
Was Hitler a Christian?
http://www.geocities.com/mikem2u/hitler.html
The Hitler of Mein Kampf
What did he believe in? Christianity? Evolution? Other gods?
http://www.geocities.com/mikem2u/meinkampf.html
Was Hitler a Christian?
Was Hitler a Christian? - Answers.org
Tell a lie loud enough, long enough and often enough and people will believe it.____________________ Adolph Hitler
I guess in your case, Hitler was right!
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:47 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 9:28 PM DarkStar has replied
 Message 174 by Loudmouth, posted 06-10-2004 2:06 PM DarkStar has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 159 of 212 (113691)
06-08-2004 9:09 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by JonF
06-08-2004 9:42 AM


Re: Getting back on track now
[JonF: .....does this in any way support the idea that evolution is a religion? No.]
I would have to agree with you 100%
While it may cause you to be referred to as "religious" in nature, it has absolutely nothing to do with evolution being a religion. It would be a personal choice on your part and nothing else.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by JonF, posted 06-08-2004 9:42 AM JonF has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 160 of 212 (113692)
06-08-2004 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by crashfrog
06-08-2004 2:02 AM


Huh?
[crashfrog: Why should I believe them over you? How can you expect me to believe that you of all people are a Christian?]
I don't expect you to believe that I am a christian because I have never said that I was one. Not sure where you got that but you might want to stop trying to read between the lines because 'it aint' workin' for ya!'
Now, logically thinking, can I call myself an evolutionist and then deny the theory of evolution? Sure I could, but that wouldn't mean that I was a true evolutionist, now would it? I don't think so but maybe you still disagree.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by crashfrog, posted 06-08-2004 2:02 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
DarkStar
Inactive Member


Message 161 of 212 (113693)
06-08-2004 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by jar
06-08-2004 1:51 AM


Re: Getting back on track now
Hey, whatever makes your clock tick without having to wind it up is ok by me.
Cheers

BREATHE DEEP THE GATHERING GLOOM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 1:51 AM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 162 of 212 (113695)
06-08-2004 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by DarkStar
06-08-2004 9:04 PM


Re: Hitler a Christian? Oh the lies that people will believe.
A lot of Christians like to pretend that Hitler was not a Christian. Sorry, he was. Trying to say otherwise is just another example of Christians being able to close their eyes to the TRUTH. It's sad. It's like all of the machinations they go through to find phony prophecies, the amazing bending and contortions they go throuogh to believe in Creation, the Flood, the Boat that didn't Float, the Exodus and so many other things.
Unfortunately, reality is that Christians have done very bad things.
But back on topic, there is no religious nature to Evolution. Unfortunately, all too often, there is no honesty in religion. If there were, most of the threads here would never happen.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by DarkStar, posted 06-08-2004 9:04 PM DarkStar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by mike the wiz, posted 06-08-2004 9:32 PM jar has replied
 Message 167 by DarkStar, posted 06-10-2004 12:31 AM jar has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 163 of 212 (113696)
06-08-2004 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by jar
06-08-2004 9:28 PM


Re: Hitler a Christian? Oh the lies that people will believe.
I think many would agree that "murderer" would fit some people better than "christian" or "evolutionist". We must recognise that the most accurate definition will fit that person's actions.
I could say Einstein was a "God believer" yet if I am honest, that wouldn't define him as well as "scientist" or "genius" would.
So basically it gives christianity a bad name but that's all. I think you know my views on this by now though. I do wonder why you insist so heavily on calling the guy christian first and foremost. Just what skeptic are you, 1 or 2?
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-08-2004 08:33 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 9:28 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 9:51 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 384 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 164 of 212 (113698)
06-08-2004 9:51 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by mike the wiz
06-08-2004 9:32 PM


Great question
I do wonder why you insist so heavily on calling the guy christian first and foremost. Just what skeptic are you, 1 or 2?
Let me ask you a couple questions.
One of the things we discuss here is how people deal with reality. Would you agree that part of the problem is that many people distort the evidence to fit their preconceived vision of reality?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by mike the wiz, posted 06-08-2004 9:32 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by mike the wiz, posted 06-08-2004 9:56 PM jar has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4750
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 165 of 212 (113699)
06-08-2004 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by jar
06-08-2004 9:51 PM


Re: Great question
People may distort the evidence yes, and do. Are you saying Hitler distorted christianity to fit his plan?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 9:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by jar, posted 06-08-2004 10:19 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
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