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Author Topic:   What is a True Christian?
Steve
Inactive Member


Message 196 of 329 (117199)
06-21-2004 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by jar
06-21-2004 3:26 PM


Whether the Pope is christian or not, I will not judge.
But I am sure he follows catholicism, which is a religion, which actual draws people away from a personal relationship with God.
Christianity is a relationship with God, Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
It uses religion i.e. rules or standards to help maintain that relationship with Him, the vertical and with your fellow neighbor, the horizontal.
When you refer to it as a religion you are only refering to its aspects, not Christianity itself.
Christianity is trusting in Jesus before it is anything else.
God bless you and I pray that you come into a relationship with Him.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by jar, posted 06-21-2004 3:26 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
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mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 197 of 329 (117231)
06-21-2004 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by nator
06-21-2004 1:09 PM


Re: Yes!
People "know" that they have been abducted by aliens.
Why should I believe you and not them?
Because I say so you naughty girly.
I suppose that you might not have a reason to believe me yet not them. However, I can show that sleep paralysis is infact probably repsonsible for their abductions, yet what can you show as responsible for my prayers, when probabilities don't account for their happening?
Nobody has risked providing any any specific prayer requests.
I think Handdawg asked for a girlfriend and recieved one the next day. Can't remember if it was in this topic though. It's hard to give specific examples. I have to be honest with you though, I doubt my own examples are very impressive and so..this un-eventful existence is not to be used to bore you with.
I suppose one cannot ever satisfy you Schraff, unless they give you a list of specific events. You are one who needs proof like Thomas. Not that that's the wrong way of doing things, but to be honest, it doesn't help when Christ says believe and you will recieve.
What are the success rates of people praying to be healed of a specific illness?
I don't know. Care to enlighten me?
Edited out numerous typing errors,
This message has been edited by mike the wiz, 06-21-2004 04:33 PM

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Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-21-2004 6:25 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 198 of 329 (117243)
06-21-2004 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Steve
06-21-2004 3:55 PM


Amen to that!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Steve, posted 06-21-2004 3:55 PM Steve has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 199 of 329 (117271)
06-21-2004 6:25 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by mike the wiz
06-21-2004 5:30 PM


Re: Yes!
Well, IMHO I believe people have been abducted by fallen angels a.k.a. aliens. But thats another story...
I think Handdawg asked for a girlfriend and recieved one the next day.
Yes and it was hell on earth for 2 years after that for me. God proved to me that happiness was not to be found there.
My knees and ankles became hyperextended, swollen, and unflexible by a swimming overuse injury. This caused the swim coach to quit the idiotic practice of making her swimmers swim in tennis shoes for strength training. This was an answered prayer. My parents prayed that my knees and ankles would heal. A year later I was on the wrestling team with no problems. (for the last two and a half years I had not been able to squat or kneel at all). I prayed that God would guide me to the right College. He did. I prayed that God would alow me to win a highly comptetitive AFROTC scholarship. He did. I pray that God will humble me. He does this ALWAYS. I pray that God will strengthen and sustain our troops and that they will come to know him. I'm reading now about how an entire Marine batallion (1000 troops) received Christ in Iraq. I prayed for two opportunities to talk to my immature highschool friends about God. I got those opportunities the next day. I prayed for an answer to a personal problem and got it the next day with the specific question answered in the same vocabulary. I prayed recently for a friendship to go witnessing. 7 days later I met someone in Church who wants to get a group together to do just that. I prayed for my alcoholic friend, that she would come back to God and stop running away from everything by getting drunk. She is a very humble girl and is studying God's word vigorously now and has quit drinking. I prayed for another friend who was headed down the wrong path. I knew she would lead a life of misery, so I prayed God would spare her that. A week later she died in a car accident and went to heaven. And I'll shutup now to keep you from getting bored. But God has answered my prayers in a fantastic way that no one else can understand.
I suppose one cannot ever satisfy you Schraff
You are right Mike. It is a simple choice: to believe or not to believe. It is not up to anything we can say or argue, it is up to the power of the Holy Spirit working in the humble. Thats how it has to be. Only those who recognize their own obscurity can see things clearly.
What are the success rates of people praying to be healed of a specific illness?
That is not the main purpose of prayer. It is so sad that many Christians do not understand the purpose of prayer. Prayer is not an easy out for every suffering. So many people experience some difficulty, often brought about by their own arrogance and go around asking everyone to pray for them, because God's got the devil after them. Prayer is not designed to remove divine discipline or warrant divine blessing.
Prayer is almost NEVER for asking for personal blessings or an end of personal suffering. What we have is what God has given us by grace. What suffering we endure is what God intends for us to bear. God blesses us abundantly in his perfect timing. He certainly has been faithful to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2004 5:30 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
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wmscott
Member (Idle past 6248 days)
Posts: 580
From: Sussex, WI USA
Joined: 12-19-2001


Message 200 of 329 (117302)
06-21-2004 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 190 by riVeRraT
06-21-2004 12:38 AM


Dear Riverrat;
quote:
As far as one religion being a effective truth, I would have to disagree because religion is made up of men, and we all fall way short of Jesus' plan for us." I wasn't talking about personal conduct or qualities, for I agree that none of us can measure up to Christ, I was talking about doctrines. That the religion who's doctrines matched most closely what was taught in the Bible would be the true religion. They would also have to do their best to live up to those doctrines and not just preach them.
You quoted some nice scriptures that I am familiar with, you made the application that we are saved by Christ but not through a religion.
[quoted] Ephesians 1 5he[1] predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
The word predestined used here is in reference to Christians as a group and so it doesn't refer to specific individuals or we would be in no danger of falling away if we had in deed been predestined by God. The other scriptures you quoted were all pretty simular, saved by Christ, which is what christianity is all about and is not at issue here.
quote:
We are all different people and need different ways to worship, but no one way is the true way. The only true way is God's way for you. It's a personal thing between you and God.
Your viewpoint here is in complete conflict with scripture. One of the most important points in the Bible is that we have to worship God in the way he wants, not the way we want. (Proverbs 14:12) "There exists a way that is upright before a man, but the ways of death are the end of it afterward." We are not free to worship God however we chose, Paul wrote the Corinthians.
(1 Corinthians 1:10) "Now I exhort YOU, brothers, through the name of our Lord Jesus Christ that YOU should all speak in agreement, and that there should not be divisions among YOU, but that YOU may be fitly united in the same mind and in the same line of thought."
Obviously if God didn't approve of the divisions in the congregation, Paul wrote under inspiration of the holy spirit, God doesn't approve of the divisions in christendom. We are told that God is a god of order, not disorder, so he would never of approve of the religious mess we have today. We are also told that the way to salvation is a narrow door and few are the ones finding, which means the majority of christendom must be on the wrong path. Paul said that many would be misled into ways of worship or religions that would not meet with divine approval.
(1 Timothy 4:1-3) "However, the inspired utterance says definitely that in later periods of time some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to misleading inspired utterances and teachings of demons, by the hypocrisy of men who speak lies, marked in their conscience as with a branding iron; forbidding to marry, commanding to abstain from foods which God created"
(Acts 20:29-30) "I know that after my going away oppressive wolves will enter in among YOU and will not treat the flock with tenderness, and from among YOU yourselves men will rise and speak twisted things to draw away the disciples after themselves."
Now the people following these false leaders were mislead, they would think they were still serving God acceptably, but they would not be. All they had to do was to check the Bible and see that what they were being taught was in conflict with scripture, and then to get out of such a false religion and find those who were worshipping God in harmony with what the Bible teaches.
Now many of the common doctrines taught by most of the religions in christendom are in complete conflict with scripture, those religions are not in god's favor since such doctrines are at 1 Timothy 4:1-3 said to be inspired by demons. We can not be part of a religion with 'demon inspired' doctrines and have God's favor. God wants us to worship him in spirit and truth, not lies and false doctrines.
(John 4:22-24) "YOU worship what YOU do not know; we worship what we know, because salvation originates with the Jews. Nevertheless, the hour is coming, and it is now, when the true worshipers will worship the Father with spirit and truth, for, indeed, the Father is looking for suchlike ones to worship him. God is a Spirit, and those worshiping him must worship with spirit and truth."
He was referring to Samaritans who had a form of worship of Jehovah but they had changed a few things from the way they had been taught, now if the worship of the Samaritans he was referring was unacceptible to God, so would be that of the religions today who have done basically the same thing.
(Mark 7:7) "It is in vain that they keep worshiping me, because they teach as doctrines commands of men."
He was referring to Jews who add just merely added things to the way they were supposed to worship Jehovah, now if the worship of the Jews he was referring was in vain, how much more so would be that of the religions today with demon inspired doctrines.
So it most certainly is not up to us to find a religion that we like, we have to find the religion God likes.
Sincerely Yours; Wm Scott Anderson
This message has been edited by wmscott, 06-22-2004 04:59 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 190 by riVeRraT, posted 06-21-2004 12:38 AM riVeRraT has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 201 of 329 (117336)
06-21-2004 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 199 by Hangdawg13
06-21-2004 6:25 PM


Re: Yes!
You are right Mike. It is a simple choice: to believe or not to believe. It is not up to anything we can say or argue, it is up to the power of the Holy Spirit working in the humble.
Excellent. You have indeed spoken a perfect truth! It always will come down to belief or unbelief.
What we have is what God has given us by grace. What suffering we endure is what God intends for us to bear.
Wow. I agree, as even in scripture Christ said that his apostles would be killed, even to their faces. These truths will dissatisfy the unbeliever, but increase our belief in Christ. And why? Because who but the truth would say such things?
As for your testimony, it is amazing. I am so glad God has kept his word for you. Though my story involves no physical healings, it is very much similar to your own, in that - God convinces us if we believe. Yet have you noticed he will leave room for doubts to still exist . I tell you, this is no accident my friend, as we already know that the key is not the proof, but the belief.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-21-2004 6:25 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 202 by Steve, posted 06-24-2004 1:17 AM mike the wiz has not replied

  
Steve
Inactive Member


Message 202 of 329 (118127)
06-24-2004 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by mike the wiz
06-21-2004 10:10 PM


Re: Yes!
what are you guys talking about?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by mike the wiz, posted 06-21-2004 10:10 PM mike the wiz has not replied

  
simple 
Inactive Member


Message 203 of 329 (118165)
06-24-2004 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
05-19-2004 8:21 AM


What's a Christian?
I'd say it is someone who believes in Jesus. I was born a catholic too, but it was not until someone told me about a prayer to get 'saved', that I got to know Him. Some thing like this--"Jesus, thank you for dying for me, please forgive me for my sins, and come into my heart now. Take me to heaven when I die, and help me to share your love with others. In Jesus' name, amen"
So simple, a child could understand! "..lest you become as a little child, you can not enter into the kingdom of heaven.."

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Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 204 of 329 (118195)
06-24-2004 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Hangdawg13
06-04-2004 10:57 PM


Re: Yes!
Greetings,
Had to laugh at this -
Hangdawg13 - "I tried and tried to remember a prayer that God had never answered (some are still pending, but I am patient)..."
So, some prayers are still pending (meaning they have not been answered.)
"... I couldn't think of one."
Oh,
but now you say there are NOT any un-answered prayers?
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-04-2004 10:57 PM Hangdawg13 has not replied

  
Kapyong
Member (Idle past 3442 days)
Posts: 344
Joined: 05-22-2003


Message 205 of 329 (118198)
06-24-2004 6:21 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by Hangdawg13
06-21-2004 6:25 PM


Re: Yes!
Greetings again,
"This caused the swim coach to quit the idiotic practice of making her swimmers swim in tennis shoes for strength training. This was an answered prayer. "
Oh really?
You believe there is no other possible reason that a coach would change an bad policy?
It could ONLY have come about by prayers?
It couldn't POSSIBLY have been because the players complained? or the coach changed his mind?
Thats nonsense - you merely attributed a change in an unpopular policy to your prayers without any evidence of a connection.
"My parents prayed that my knees and ankles would heal. A year later I was on the wrestling team with no problems. "
Oh sure...
No person ever healed in a year without divine intervention ;-)
This is silly - people heal all the time - you merely attributed it to your prayers without any evidence of a connection.
"I prayed that God would guide me to the right College. He did. "
Oh - very funny.
The only way to get to the "right" college is thru divine action.
No-one who doesn't pray ever gets to the "right" college.
This is silly - people get to the "right" college all the time (whatever that means) - you merely attributed it to your prayers because you WANT to believe.
"I prayed that God would alow me to win a highly comptetitive AFROTC scholarship. He did. "
Ha Ha.
You couldn't possibly have won because you deserved it?
Oh no - it HAD to be God's action.
"I pray that God will humble me. He does this ALWAYS."
Oh yah - this is absolute proof of success of prayer - because you could not POSSIBLY be humble without God making it so.
"I pray that God will strengthen and sustain our troops and that they will come to know him. I'm reading now about how an entire Marine batallion (1000 troops) received Christ in Iraq. "
Oh?
So YOUR prayer brought a whole battalion to Christ?
Tell me - which battalion exactly?
Is there a single one of that battalion that attributes this event to YOU?
"I prayed for two opportunities to talk to my immature highschool friends about God. I got those opportunities the next day. "
Oh sure...
A chance to talk to some friends NEVER happens without divine intervention - that HAD to have been your prayers - who ever heard of people having a chance to talk to friends without praying for it to happen?
Ha Ha.
"I prayed for an answer to a personal problem and got it the next day with the specific question answered in the same vocabulary."
Yup - that HAD to be God - no human ever solved a personal problem before without help from God did they?
Mate,
you believe ANYTHING is proof for what you believe.
I may as well say -
" I prayed to Mithra for the sun to come up this morning - and it DID!
Mithra is REAL! "
Iasion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by Hangdawg13, posted 06-21-2004 6:25 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 206 of 329 (118467)
06-24-2004 11:21 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Kapyong
06-24-2004 6:21 AM


Re: Yes!
Hello Iasion,
I was not listing some of my prayers and their answers in the hopes of proving to an atheist that God exists. I certainly don't expect them to convince you or anyone else. I said that to believe or not to believe is a simple choice.
In my life where prayer is answered God brings me to a point where nothing in my power can help me and I do not know what to do. I pray for help. I have faith that God can help. I trust that his plan for me is perfect. I get help. I KNOW it is God because I have faith. You do not have faith so it is foolishness to you.

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Trixie
Member (Idle past 3706 days)
Posts: 1011
From: Edinburgh
Joined: 01-03-2004


Message 207 of 329 (122055)
07-05-2004 6:42 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by IrishRockhound
05-19-2004 8:21 AM


What IS a Christian? My opinion
The question has been asked What makes someone a Christian? It should be a relatively easy question to answer, but the more I’ve thought about it, the more difficult it has become to answer it. Then I realised that I was thinking so deeply about it that my head was up my backside! So, I went back to first principles and started again.
I started at the Creed which I’ve boringly included
I believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth, of all that is, seen and unseen.
I believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through Him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation he came down from Heaven. By the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate of the Virgin Mary and was made Man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; He suffered death and was buried. On the third day He rose again, in accordance with the Scriptures. He ascended into Heaven and is seated at the right hand of the Father. He will come again in glory to judge the living and the dead and His Kingdom will have no end.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the Giver of Life who proceeds from the Father and the Son. With the Father and the Son He is worshipped and glorified. He has spoken through the prophets.
I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church. I acknowledge one baptism for the forgiveness of sin and look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
So, a brief summary of what all that is.
Firstly there is only one God that Christians can believe in and He is responsible for making everything around us, including ourselves. However, that doesn’t explain the how of it. You can believe in the Genesis version of Creation, or you can believe in evolution. Nothing in the Creed specifies how God made everything.
Christians also believe that Jesus Christ was the Messiah, i.e. the one to die for our sins, but there’s more to it than that. He is described as the Son of God, begotten, not made. That means begotten just like all the other begottens in the Bible. Remember the whole list of who begat who? So Jesus Christ came into being in the same way that new people are made today. His mother was Mary. Thing is, who was his Father? I’m not talking biologically, so don’t think I’m talking about Joseph. According to all the references in the Bible and the Creed, God is His Father. Yet it also says that He is of one being with the Father. So that means that God is God and God is Jesus and Jesus is God and since the Creed also states that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, it means that God is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit, Jesus is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit. This neatly describes the Trinity, the Three in One. I think of it as a bit like water. You can take a bit of water, depending on the conditions, and those same molecules can be ice, water or vapour. Three in one.
Then we come to the bit about the crucifixion. If you believe all the explanations above, then you come to the realisation that, although it’s said that God sent His Son to suffer and die for us, in actual fact it was God Himself, manifested as the Son who did the suffering. That’s why the argument How could a loving Father make His Son go through that? doesn’t make me wonder. It also makes me realise that the crucifixion was the final step in the forgiveness of our sins. Our sins come from that fact that we are human with human weaknesses and frailties. God had never been human and had never experienced the weaknesses. By becoming human, God got to see what it was like FROM OUR POINT OF VIEW. The capitalised bit is the important bit!! It’s sort of like mitigating circumstances. Jesus became the bridge between the Divine and the human.
Now what might be an awkward bit. The holy catholic and apostolic church. Apostolic is self-explanatory, but what about catholic? Notice the small c. So we’re not talking Catholic as in Roman Catholic, we’re talking definitions here and it means universal. OK, why is that included in the Creed? Well, because prior to Paul it was only the Jews who were being included in Christianity. Paul extended it to ALL. He made it all-inclusive, i.e. universal.
One baptism for the forgiveness of sins? Well, that’s a passive forgiveness; you don’t have to do anything. However there is a HUGE but. Anything done after that isn’t included. So how do you get later sins forgiven? By asking for forgiveness in prayer. That means you have to recognise that your action or words or thoughts have actually been a sin, that is you have to admit that you’ve done wrong. It’s easy to say I’m sorry to someone, it’s a damned sight harder to say I’m sorry for.. and actually specifying what you know you shouldn’t have done. While we’re on the subject of sins and forgiveness, I’m going to bring in a specifically Roman Catholic slant — the issue of Confession or as it’s more properly known Reconciliation. Before I became a Roman Catholic I would pray in privacy and ask for forgiveness for whatever I thought I had done wrong. Now I have to TELL someone and my priest doesn’t do it in a confessional — it’s his front room, face to face. Boy, is that the pits!!! It makes me so aware of sin and it makes me ashamed and determined not to do it again. Doesn’t mean that I succeed, but I do try. Also, it’s not a matter of three Our Fathers and ten Hail Marys and you’re forgiven. If you don’t feel genuinely contrite in your heart you’re NOT forgiven and priests make that clear. Yu can put on as much of an act as you can when you confess to the priest and he may perform the Absolution, but if you don’t feel sorry for your sins in your heart then God knows and won’t forgive you, no matter how many Hail Marys you say. Yes, Reconciliation is abused, some people confess the same sins week in, week out, but the Roman Catholic Church makes it quite clear that in doing this you obviously can’t be genuinely contrite and so you’re not forgiven by God.
The Resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come sort of speaks for itself again. Christians believe that after physical death you get eternal life. It was believed that the resurrection was physical and that the dead body would be raised at the Second Coming — that’s why many believed that cremation was not a good thing — it destroyed the body. However, that belief has been superseded by the belief that it is the soul which is resurrected. After all, didn’t Jesus say on the Cross to the guy crucified beside him Today you will be in Paradise? Note the TODAY. No question of waiting for the Second Coming.
So that’s my take on what makes a Christian a Christian. I’m not trying to argue from logic, I’m not trying to prove to anyone that there is a God. This is just my personal opinion on the matter. It takes in core beliefs and instructions on how you should act towards others. The specifics are set out in the teachings of Jesus, but if you truly believe in Jesus Christ as the Saviour, then you will try with all your might to follow his teachings and that means staying your hand, turning the other cheek, helping people, forgiving others, praying for forgiveness and asking others to forgive you when you sin against them, not judging others — leave that to God, he’s the best judge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by IrishRockhound, posted 05-19-2004 8:21 AM IrishRockhound has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 208 of 329 (122126)
07-05-2004 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Trixie
07-05-2004 6:42 AM


Re: What IS a Christian? My opinion
Thank you Trixie. An eloquent and well formed statement.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Trixie, posted 07-05-2004 6:42 AM Trixie has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 209 of 329 (122855)
07-08-2004 12:41 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Trixie
07-05-2004 6:42 AM


Re: What IS a Christian? My opinion
I agree very much with what you said.
The arguments in the Non-Christian moral code have got me thinking. Here's what I'm thinking:
Anyone who has believed in Christ is in the family of God and therefore may be called a Christian.
We are commanded as Christians to be "ambassadors for Christ". We do this by obeying his commands, following his moral code, and loving and serving God and others. If we do not obey his commands, then we are not acting as ambassadors in the name of Christ, but are derelecting our duty. In a sense we are no longer acting as Christians (I'm not saying we've lost our salvation), but if we are no longer attempting to represent our namesake as ambassadors, then we do not deserve to go by the designation of "Christian" up to a point. Certainly no Christian is perfect.
Anyone who believes in Christ is a Christian in that he is saved by grace through faith, but anyone who does not act according to his commands is not a Christian in his ambassadorship.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 210 of 329 (173121)
01-02-2005 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
05-23-2004 12:29 PM


Re: What is actually necessary to be a Christian
OK, Jar. Jumping back to this topic, lets refresh the original thread intent:
IRH writes:
So, some questions to start with:
What is actually necessary to be a true Christian?
- belief in bible inerrancy?
- belief in creationism?
- regular Church-going habits?
- regular prayer?
- use of the bible as a moral guide?
- belief in the core message of Jesus Christ?
Who gets to decide who is and who isn't, and how relevent is their opinion?
- the Pope?
- Christian fundamentalists?
- majority decision by ordinary Christians?
- just the person in question?
- non-Christians who are familiar with Christians?
Of course, this leads to the question of whether someone who decides to go on a killing spree for God after reading the Old Testament is a 'true Christian'.
You then have a concise and good reply:
jar writes:
is pretty much covered, IMHO, in Matthew Chapter 22, Verses 36-40.
36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
38 This is the first and great commandment.
39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
As I see it, there are three things needed, to love GOD, to love others and to love yourself.
There is no need to believe in the Literal interpretation of the Bible, but rather to learn from it and understand its message.
So the question that jar and I are discussing is this: Why was Hitler a Christian..(or NOT!) I say that a Christian is not a Christian by proclamation but by impartation of the Holy Spirit. So how do we know? Some say we will know them by their works. Others say that it will be the lifestyle. So if a Buddhist monk is a pacifist while an American Christian is a Marine, is one any closer or further from God than the other?
I believe that it is impossible for someone to love totally and NOT be a Christian. Even that Buddhist! He will have to meet Jesus and will accept Him, in all probability! While the Bible need not be taken literally in all aspects, the fact of a living Savior who died and rose again and is alive today MUST be accepted literally and will be accepted by all who truly love rightly.
Hangdawg writes:
We are commanded as Christians to be "ambassadors for Christ". We do this by obeying his commands, following his moral code, and loving and serving God and others. If we do not obey his commands, then we are not acting as ambassadors in the name of Christ, but are derelecting our duty.
And I saw Tals video.
In the video, the soldiers were doing their job. It is not an easy one. Were I, as a Christian, to be asked to do such a job, I would be unable to do so in that capacity. I am NOT saying that Tal is not a Christian, however. That is between God and Tal.
This message has been edited by Phatboy, 01-02-2005 15:31 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by jar, posted 05-23-2004 12:29 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by jar, posted 01-02-2005 5:59 PM Phat has replied
 Message 212 by RAZD, posted 01-02-2005 6:52 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 228 by nator, posted 01-03-2005 10:40 AM Phat has replied

  
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