Who can be saved? A Christian perspective

I believe that I did address those. Go back and take a look and if I didn't answer your questions, open a thread on it. What is from GOD? I'm most certainly not Christ and have never said that my opinion rules what GOD thinks. But others certainly do. Not at all. They will be treated like everyone else. I can think of no reason. Unless, of course, it is correct. Do you know what catholic means?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

The bread which comes down from heaven.Okay. I have said enough, we must just have different ways about us.

Jar, your still living in your new-age fantasy. I understand if its your opinion, but you call yourself a christian??? Anyway, since your topic says a christian perspective, then i will give you a christian perspective. And no, athiests will not be saved if the God of the Bible is truth. This is barely an introduction to salvation but i couldnt be bothered writing much. A christian has to first be saved from the guilt and penalty of sin (death)(Epesians 2:5,8), Secondly a christian must be saved from the habit and dominion of sin in his life (Galatians 2:19,20), Finally when Christ returns, those who have put there faith in the Lord and in righteousness shall be caught up with Him and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Many will not take the offer of eternal life because of pride (i dont need to be saved from anything, im happy the way i am) ,sin problem (everything God tells me to not do is everything that i want to do), ignorance (dont care, f*ck God, whatever). In the Lords eyes, these people have chosen Satan and evil over Christ and righteousness, they shall not enter the kingdom of heaven (Revelation 20:15). The ONLY way to escape the second death of hell is to receive the free gift of eternal life which is given to us from Jesus Christ, the savior of all generations and times.And lastly for those who are interested in Gods prophecy. You can read on and see what the Old Testament had to say about the Gentiles (you and me).'And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, which shall stand as a banner to the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious' Isaiah 11:10Wow, amazing! Jesus Christ wasnt brought for the Jews. He was brought so that we, non-jews shall also the chance to love and serve the Lord. We christians shall also forever be with the lord, while never forgetting his love for Israel and his eternal covenent with his people.'Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereatBecause narrow is the gate, and difficult is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it' Matthew 7:13-14This message has been edited by almeyda, 10-02-2004 05:45 AM

So, I gather from that statement that you believe that GOD has spoken to mankind at least twice. He formed a covenant with the Jews which is still in force. He later sent Jesus to reach people outside the Jewish faith.Is that correct so far?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Indeed.

Okay next step.Do you agree that the two Great Commandments are "Love GOD and love others as you love yourself"?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, Among others.

Do you agree that if something happens once, it might be unique. But if something happens more than once there is no reason to believe that it could not happen repeatedly?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Umm, yes i guess. Im not sure where your going with this.

Okay, then we agree that if something happens more than once it could happen repeatedly.If that is the case, if GOD reached out to the Jews directly, the Gentiles through Jesus, why couldn't GOD reach out to the Muslims through Mohhamud, asians through Confucious, Buddha and Mencius and Mormons through Joseph Smith.Look at Matthew 25. Where does it show any requirement for profession of Jesus, knowledge of Jesus, belief in Jesus or even an intent to acknowledge Jesus? In fact, where does it show a requirement to profess GOD, acknowledge GOD, worship GOD or even an intent to Love GOD?Matthew 25 is very clear. No interpretation is needed. It says if you have done it for the least of these, you've done it for GOD. It does not say Christians are saved and all others damned. It says those that have loved GOD will be saved even if they never intended to do so.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

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If that is the case, if GOD reached out to the Jews directly, the Gentiles through Jesus, why couldn't GOD reach out to the Muslims through Mohhamud, asians through Confucious, Buddha and Mencius and Mormons through Joseph Smith.

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The Gentiles are all nations, all generations, all times. It is not white people. Or just western nations. All nations. The God of the Bible tells us that besides him there is no other God. What you must realise is that some of the major religions are off-shoots of the Bible. 'Copy-cats' if you will. Books like the Quran & Book of Mormon have corrupted the God of the Bible. Not given 'better' revelations. They have denied, or distorted the truth of the Gospel. Havent you heard?, thus sayeth the Lord..."But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false prophets among you who secretly shall bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord that brought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction" 2 Peter 2:1"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is anti-christ, that denieth the Father and the Son" 1 John 2:22Here we see that denying Christ as Lord, is a sin. These people surely will not be looked upon with mercy by God. They have followed not His word. But destructive heresies that deny Christ as Lord, and pervert the words of the Lord. Yet Mormons proclaim that Jesus is a spirit child, and a spirit-brother of lucifer. Muslim belief also puts Jesus as a high prophet, but not God. Buddhism is athiestic in its philosophy and therefore has denied Christ, and the Gospel. Which is completely irrational and illogical that athiests, according to Jars theory, will be saved.The fact that Jesus willingly recieved worship says alot about his true identity. Scripture teaches us that only God can be worshipped."To whom then will ye like me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy one" Isaiah 40:25"Who have wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the Lord, the first and with the last, I am he" Isaiah 41:4"I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God" Isaiah 44:6

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Look at Matthew 25. Where does it show any requirement for profession of Jesus, knowledge of Jesus, belief in Jesus or even an intent to acknowledge Jesus? In fact, where does it show a requirement to profess GOD, acknowledge GOD, worship GOD or even an intent to Love GOD?

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The seperation of the sheep and goats is the judgement of the nations. Sheep (saved) & goat (unsaved). Which means that those who didnt accept Christ as there 'Lord' and savior, will not inherit the kingdom.

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Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

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And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

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Clearly this is the judgement of the second death. The punishment of sin, ungodly man, & the unsaved.

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Matthew 25 is very clear. No interpretation is needed. It says if you have done it for the least of these, you've done it for GOD. It does not say Christians are saved and all others damned. It says those that have loved GOD will be saved even if they never intended to do so.

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Read Matthew 24:23-26, 1 Timothy 4:1. Think about the word Christian for a second. CHRIST-ian. Get it? This is why Jews and CHRIST-ians will all inherit the kingdom of God. Salvation for CHRIST-ians (Gentiles/you & me) is by grace through faith, not by works. As the Church of LDS believe. The moment we believe in Christ, we are 'justified' or 'declared righteous' before God."For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from yourselves, it is a gift of God - not by works, so that no one can boast" Ephesians 2:8,9"No one will be declared righteous in his sight by observing the law; rather, through law we become conscience of sin" Romans 3:20"He saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy" Titus 3:5The truth of the Bible is that only those who accept Christ as there personal Lord, and savior. Will inherit the kingdom (Revelation 21:7,8)

I agree with the first part of your premise, jar. Anyone who has never had a belief will get the chance to do so. I DO NOT agree that anyone who denies the existance of God will be saved,however. Let me clarify: Once God has made Himself known to someone, they best not deny Him. They may have denied Him prior to this event, however. As usual, Mike gives a Christian response...which I agree with.(being a Christian)
We believe in the Bible, yet we will not presume to judge anyone elses salvation. One question: From your atheist perspective, do souls and humans merely cease to exist? No trace of a lifetime charcter or soul...except though the bloody kids??!! I tend to agree with this prognosis more. and this contrasts with your first quote, (anyone can be saved whether or not they acknowledge or profess a belief in Jesus or even GOD.)

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Phatboy says:
I tend to agree with this prognosis more.

jar writes:

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Well, actually, Jesus said in no uncertain terms that there were two commandments, and that all the Laws and Prophecy hang on those two commandments.

and this contrasts with your first quote, (anyone can be saved whether or not they acknowledge or profess a belief in Jesus or even GOD.)

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Well according to the Bible, there is no conflict between the two. As I have pointed out, Matthew 25 is pretty clear about what is involved in loving GOD. And it does not have anything to do with what you say, profess or believe.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Well, I agree that there is but one GOD.I agree that there are false prophets but I also think it more likely that they are Christian Ministers than Mohammud.I agree that Christians must acknowledge Christ.But I think you may have totally misread Matthew 25 even though I provided it for you. Please point out the passage in Matthew 25 that says... In fact, please point out the place in Matthew 25 that even mentions belief?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

So what you are essentially saying is that a guy could be an atheist and yet because he professed a love for "the least of these" with essentially all his heart,soul, mind, and strength--he would be saved. Right?Because he is doing for the least of these, he is doing for God...
I won't dispute scripture, but I must point out that in Matthew, Jesus is addressing His Disciples..which are Jews, and that He is speaking of the time of His Second Coming. Many, though not ALL believe that before the Second Coming, the Church will have been taken out beforehand. The rest of the world...unbelievers...and the Jews will be left.In context, Jesus is speaking of the standards by which God will judge those who are not traditional Christians.
In other words, I guess that you are right, jar and I see your point.
My point was that anyone who has already seen and or known Jesus
such as you or I--cannot then deny Him and go off doing good works being a skeptic but loving humanity.If the Bible is true in all regards, the word says that those who have received a Disciple will have received Jesus, and by receiving Jesus they will receive God.I'm with Mike in that we cannot judge who is and is not saved.
Say I grew up in Calcutta. Having never had a Baptist (or any other)
Preacher bang on my door, I know little of the Christian message except through the examples of people whom I know to be Christians..
Ideally, these Christians will be doing well for the least of these around me...and by example I see the love of God. Lets say, however, that I did not even know any Christians. Driven by a deep unction in my soul, I instinctively helped those around me who were less fortunate. (Matthew 25)--The one point that I disagree with you is is that I could not ever deny God..or Christ...since I had never MET them to begin with.(Either directly,through communion/salvation experience or indirectly through another Christian.You said that EVEN if I DID deny them I would be saved just by doing the good works.
Seeing as how you were brought up Catholic while I am Protestant, I can understand the "good works" interpretation.Edited by Phat, : No reason given.