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Author Topic:   What is Christianity?
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 46 of 451 (152615)
10-24-2004 9:24 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by mike the wiz
10-24-2004 1:49 PM


Re: Kudos to all
That is how I would define one I suppose, but then there might be other things - baptism in the Holy Spirit etc.. But you wouldn't find that in the dictionary as obviously an objective source isn't going to say such a thing - or certainly a secularist would have the assumption that there is no Spirit. So it might become an irrelevancy concerning the definition used by most secularist people, - in that a secularist might define one as just a believer - yet a believer might say that the baptism is necessary - anyhow/where/whatsoever - I am so tired of the whole thing, and I am not baptised in the Holy SPirit as far as I know - so am I a christian? Depends on who's defining it. And so - let Christ decide if I am.
Since this is not going to be a debate response, I hope Jar won't mind my clarifying my belief on the Holy Spirit relative to your remarks and relative to Christianity. I do not believe in the penticostal doctrine which goes with some kind of 2nd experience with an encounter with the Holy Spirit they call the baptism of the Holy Spirit.. There is only one scripture I know of that deals with this experience specifically. It is in I Corinthians 12:13 where we are told that WE ARE ALL, referring, I believe all true Christians, BAPTIZED INTO ONE BODY BY ONE SPIRIT. Another verse says the very bodies of Christians become the temples, i.e. dwelling places of the Holy Spirit. When one receives Christ as Saviour it is understandable that Jesus, the man does not come down from Heaven and enter our bodies, but his Holy Spirit, the spirit of him and the father literally comes into the recipient's body and being. When I received Jesus the Christ as my saviour as a child I felt nothing physically, but simply took God at his word that I was, by calling upon him for salvation, now his child and a Christian by faith in his promise. As I grew in the Christian experience via prayer, church attendance and study of the Bible, especially the NT, my faith grew stronger and firmer that I I was truly a Christian and thus [/i]baptized by his Spirit[/i] We Christians are never admonished to be baptized by the HS, but to be filled by that Holy Spirit. Thus I believe in ONE baptism when one receives Christ and becomes a Christian and MANY fillings and many DEGREES to which one may be filled by that Spirit. Some have a little and others have a lot, depending on how devout, obedient and active in prayer, study, etc, but all who have his Spirit via receiving Christ as saviour and lord, regardless of how full of the spirit they are, nevertheless, STILL A CHRISTIAN.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by mike the wiz, posted 10-24-2004 1:49 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by mike the wiz, posted 10-25-2004 10:35 AM Buzsaw has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 47 of 451 (152750)
10-25-2004 10:35 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by Buzsaw
10-24-2004 9:24 PM


Buzbaba
When I received Jesus the Christ as my saviour as a child I felt nothing physically, but simply took God at his word that I was, by calling upon him for salvation, now his child and a Christian by faith in his promise. As I grew in the Christian experience via prayer, church attendance and study of the Bible, especially the NT, my faith grew stronger and firmer that I I was truly a Christian and thus baptized by his Spirit We Christians are never admonished to be baptized by the HS, but to be filled by that Holy Spirit. Thus I believe in ONE baptism when one receives Christ and becomes a Christian and MANY fillings and many DEGREES to which one may be filled by that Spirit. Some have a little and others have a lot, depending on how devout, obedient and active in prayer, study, etc, but all who have his Spirit via receiving Christ as saviour and lord, regardless of how full of the spirit they are, nevertheless, STILL A CHRISTIAN.
Thanks for that insight of wisdom Buz. You have spoken complete wisdom here, as indeed - why would God answer our prayers and grow us if we are not his? I think my experiences are similar to yours - although, I kind of always believed in Christ, as far as I can remember - but got serious about it about five years ago.
I suppose I mentioned those things to Jar - as I thought you must have had a Holy Spirit experience as a baptism, and were defining such an event as a definition of Christian, and so - I didn't want to offend you by saying "I am a Christian" - when I infact haven't had a physical experience of this nature.
But further goes your wisdom - because when Christ asked Peter - "who do you say I am?" - Pter couldn't have answered unless the Spirit of God revealed it to him. Likewise - the man on the cross - whom Christ said tp; "today - you will be with me in paradise" - was he having an Holy Spirit experience? I trow not, yet he was saved - and was the comforter given?
So when you say;
Thus I believe in ONE baptism when one receives Christ and becomes a Christian and MANY fillings and many DEGREES to which one may be filled by that Spirit. Some have a little and others have a lot, depending on how devout, obedient and active in prayer, study, etc
Then I know this is correct.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Buzsaw, posted 10-24-2004 9:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 10-25-2004 9:44 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 451 (152907)
10-25-2004 9:44 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by mike the wiz
10-25-2004 10:35 AM


Re: Buzbaba
Hi Mike. I sensed from your post that you needed some clarification. I believe the Holy Spirit was prompting me to clarify as it seemed that my post had left you a bit despondent and discouraged. Satan is the accuser of the brethren who discourages and brings doubt. I find the way to keep on keeping on in the Christian walk is to 1. read the Bible daily. 2. have a time of personal prayer daily. 3. Meet with likeminded Christians at least once a week in public assembly which would include Sabbath or Sunday school. The study time together with other believers is important since you can communicate with the teacher and vise versa. It is also good to pray with other believers. I've always said if one does all these, one will likely keep positive as a Christian and on track. Daily personal Bible study is priority. Why? Because by becoming knowledgeable of the book, one can then spot the true and the false in and out of church.
While I'm at it I forgot two things of significance in what I believe about Christianity. '
1. The word baptize implicates to imerse. It signifies death, burial (going under) and resurrection, {rising up and out). It signifies both the death and resurrection of Jesus and our future death and resurrection. Water baptism does not save a person nor make him/her a Christian, imo. It is that physical public thing that one who has received Jesus as saviour does as a public testimony of becoming a Christian. Jesus stressed the need to publically acknowledge him before men. This's how one begins that public testamony. He said if we are ashamed of him before men, he will be ashamed of us before the Father.
2. Communion is that ordinance which Jesus commanded us to do regularly so as not to forget his suffering and death on the cruel cross for our redemption. This is to be done with other Christians as that's how he did it. Imo, it, like baptism does nothing to make one more saved of less, but is to be done in obedience to Jesus strictly as a remembrance. He said "this is my body" and "this is my blood." I see nothing in this that indicates a change in the food to flesh. It's like pointing to your man, i.e. wood or plastic piece on the monoply board and saying to your opponent, "this's me."
I hope I haven't gone outa bounds from topic here, but to answer the quesion of what a Christian is, but I consider it to be a very important question which must be answered with at least equally as much precision and comprehension as one would go at a medical or science problem.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by mike the wiz, posted 10-25-2004 10:35 AM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by mike the wiz, posted 10-25-2004 10:10 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 49 of 451 (152916)
10-25-2004 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Buzsaw
10-25-2004 9:44 PM


Re: Buzbaba
Hi Mike. I sensed from your post that you needed some clarification. I believe the Holy Spirit was prompting me to clarify as it seemed that my post had left you a bit despondent and discouraged. Satan is the accuser of the brethren who discourages and brings doubt.
Wow - this is true B. Infact, I am glad you offered that post now because I admitt a lil doubt on my part - but only a lil, I promise.
. Meet with likeminded Christians at least once a week in public assembly which would include Sabbath or Sunday school.
I've got to admitt - I lack the above I suppose. I spend a lot of time around doubters or neutralists and so I suppose their negativity might rub off on me.
Thanks for the precise response!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Buzsaw, posted 10-25-2004 9:44 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2004 12:23 AM mike the wiz has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 451 (152955)
10-26-2004 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by mike the wiz
10-25-2004 10:10 PM


Re: Buzbaba
Thanks for the precise response!
Glad to be able to edify you, my brother. Thanks for being there when I needed you also! May God bless you richly for it!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by mike the wiz, posted 10-25-2004 10:10 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by mike the wiz, posted 10-26-2004 12:26 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 51 of 451 (153057)
10-26-2004 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by Buzsaw
10-26-2004 12:23 AM


Re: Buzbaba
Likewise.
I am glad if I was a tool of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by Buzsaw, posted 10-26-2004 12:23 AM Buzsaw has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-26-2004 12:35 PM mike the wiz has replied

  
Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 52 of 451 (153058)
10-26-2004 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by mike the wiz
10-26-2004 12:26 PM


Far, Far Too Easy to Resist
If it helps, I've always thought of you as a tool.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by mike the wiz, posted 10-26-2004 12:26 PM mike the wiz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by mike the wiz, posted 10-26-2004 12:39 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
mike the wiz
Member
Posts: 4752
From: u.k
Joined: 05-24-2003


Message 53 of 451 (153060)
10-26-2004 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Dan Carroll
10-26-2004 12:35 PM


Dan cannot contain himself any longer
I absolutely KNEW you would respond to that post, you naughty lil Danbaba.
I've always thought of you as a stool.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Dan Carroll, posted 10-26-2004 12:35 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 451 (154293)
10-29-2004 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
08-28-2004 10:05 PM


Re: On prayer and intercession
Do they pray to Mary and the other Saints, or do they ask Mary and the other Saints to interceed for them?
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now, and at the hour of our death, amen."
IIRC, that is based on the quotes from Luke 1:28 and 42.
28
..."Hail, favored one! The Lord is with you."
42
..."Most blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.
Since you asked, I'll comment. It appears that you answered your own question by quoting three prayers to Mary. Many Catholics also offer prayers to St Jude for protection. These prayers have been published in our local Pennysaver in the past.
As a Biblical fundamentalist Christian, I pray to God the father in the name of Jesus the son is our 'high priest' and 'mediator.' I base this on scriptures like I Timothy 2:5 which says, "there is one mediator between God and men, the man, Christ Jesus." and the words of Jesus in John 15:16 where he says, '.........that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it you.' He makes similar statements to that effect in other scriptures.
Btw, which professing Christians have we not heard from yet in this thread? It would be interesting to have other input.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by jar, posted 08-28-2004 10:05 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 10-29-2004 10:15 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 55 of 451 (154297)
10-29-2004 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
10-29-2004 10:00 PM


Re: On prayer and intercession
Since you asked, I'll comment. It appears that you answered your own question by quoting three prayers to Mary. Many Catholics also offer prayers to St Jude for protection.
Well, I don't see three prayers to Mary or even one. The Roman Catholics simply ask Mary to intercede for them. They do not ask Mary or Jude or Peter to forgive sin or grant requests.
The two quotes I provided were simply from the Bible.
But then there is that great old hymn I first heard very early one morning while on a road trip, fading in and out over the nighttime airways from WWVA...
I don't care if it rains of freezes
'Long as I got my Plastic Jesus
Riding on the dashboard of my car.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 10-29-2004 10:00 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Buzsaw, posted 10-30-2004 10:35 PM jar has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 451 (154509)
10-30-2004 10:35 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by jar
10-29-2004 10:15 PM


Re: On prayer and intercession
The two quotes I provided were simply from the Bible.
Of course. I wasn't thinking when I posted. There is, however definitely one prayer, by definition, to Mary, in your post, requesting for her to interceed to God for us. Prayer is defined as communicating, and usually implicates communication with deity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by jar, posted 10-29-2004 10:15 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 10-30-2004 10:44 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 451 (154512)
10-30-2004 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Buzsaw
10-30-2004 10:35 PM


Re: On prayer and intercession
So Luke 1:28 and 1:42 are prayers?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Buzsaw, posted 10-30-2004 10:35 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 58 of 451 (758481)
05-26-2015 8:07 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by jar
10-24-2004 11:24 AM


Re: Kudos to all
jar,message 1 writes:
It's pretty obvious that many of the posters here are Christians, yet seem to hold vastly different ideas of what Christianity means. Perhaps it would be good if those who called themselves Christian defined their personal concept of Christianity.
This is not meant as much as a debate as a question and answer session.
I am bringing this topic back up for a moment of introspection, clarity, as well as response from the author.
jar writes:
Christianity is one of the world's great Religions. For me a short summary would be:
In the beginning, billions and billions of years ago, GOD created this universe. Most likely, the primordial singularity was a thought of GOD.
This may not be the only universe and if there are other universes, they are within GOD and He is within them.
GOD is. The God of the Hebrew, the GOD of the Muslims, in fact all of the various GODs out there are GOD.
Two thousand years ago Jesus lived and died for ALL mankind. The promise given, the gift of salvation, was not just for Christians but for ALL. It includes, Jews and Muslims, Hindus and Buddhists, Atheists and Agnostics.
The only conditions are twofold (with the second commandment being a two part one), Love GOD; Love others and love yourself. You may not succeed, but to be saved you have to try to live up to those commandments.
Some believed that salvation is achieved through trying our best to live up to the commandments. Others believe that salvation is a free gift from God.
One side will argue that a human can never do enough to earn salvation. The other side will counter that we are still expected to try to do our best.
Perhaps the key is found in the salvation itself. is it earned or is it given?
jar writes:
I also believe that Christianity is more than just Christians.
As I said in other posts, IMHO, Christ's Death and Resurrection is a promise to ALL people, even Atheists and Agnostics. It was the gift of salvations and a promise of life everlasting, freely given, from GOD to all mankind.
key words: Freely Given.
jar writes:
Christians, if you are out there, how about stepping up and explaining what your view of Christianity is?
To quote an oft used phrase: "Its not about religion. Its about relationship."
The question is then asked of whom the relationship involves. Are we expected to love God by loving others?
jar writes:
It is not so much a matter of "Doing Works" for the merit of them as in recognizing the inner oneness of all beings. Christianity is not about dying, not about the second coming, not about heaven, it's about living. It's about recognizing that all men are part of life, all things are a part of life.
The guy that stops his car and helps a turtle across the road loves GOD. When you reach up and get down the package on the top shelf of the grocery store for someone who can't reach it, or sit on the floor to read to kids, you are loving GOD.
Does a person have to know God in order to love God?
jar writes:
if it were done to be a good work, to gain credit, for the doer not the recipient, then it would not be loving God.
Thus its not about us. Its about them. All of them.
jar writes:
So far this is turning out to be all that I could have wished, maybe even more.
Please keep the posts coming.
For those Christians on the board who have not yet posted, what is your definition of a Christian?

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 10-24-2004 11:24 AM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Jon, posted 05-26-2015 9:58 PM Phat has replied
 Message 68 by ringo, posted 05-27-2015 3:39 PM Phat has replied

  
Jon
Inactive Member


Message 59 of 451 (758482)
05-26-2015 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Phat
05-26-2015 8:07 PM


Re: Kudos to all
Some believed that salvation is achieved through trying our best to live up to the commandments. Others believe that salvation is a free gift from God.
One side will argue that a human can never do enough to earn salvation. The other side will counter that we are still expected to try to do our best.
Perhaps the key is found in the salvation itself. is it earned or is it given?
If you work for an hour and earn $15, does your employer owe you the money?

Love your enemies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Phat, posted 05-26-2015 8:07 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 05-26-2015 9:59 PM Jon has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 60 of 451 (758483)
05-26-2015 9:59 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Jon
05-26-2015 9:58 PM


Re: Kudos to all
Of course.

Saying, "I don't know," is the same as saying, "Maybe."~ZombieRingo
It's easy to see the speck in somebody else's ideas - unless it's blocked by the beam in your own.~Ringo
If a savage stops believing in his wooden god, it does not mean that there is no God only that God is not wooden.(Leo Tolstoy)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Jon, posted 05-26-2015 9:58 PM Jon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Jon, posted 05-26-2015 10:00 PM Phat has replied

  
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