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macaroniandcheese  Suspended Member (Idle past 3956 days) Posts: 4258 Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The "Gospel" Of John | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||
arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
laws of men. the 10 commandments are laws of God. of in the sense of application, not authorship. or, if you like, consider it a typo and replace "of" with the word "for"
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Interesting stuff but is it moving us away from the issue of the Gospel of John? i agree. john contains no genealogies, curiously. swift can make a new thread if he wants; i don't feel like discussing it much anymore. i've made my points. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 12-12-2004 07:42 PM
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
yes but you miss the point. no, i've been fed "the point" for 8 years, every sunday. it has ceased to make sense. i have not missed any point, rather i am addressing and refuting them.
Jesus=salvation from etenal seperation from god. no argument at the moment.
We ask God to forgive or sins when we have sinned and Jesus made this possible. so what you're saying is that god can't just forgive us when we sin? or that forgiveness cannot be granted after some form of personal atonement? is god not all-powerful now? christ, even jesus forgave sins.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Who is Arachnophilia that I should take his word over the clear teaching of scripture? i don't see anything clear about scripture, and i think i've made that perfectly clear. you seem to forget that i've been quoting too. my questions and concerns with the book of john are soundly based in scripture. i think the question is, who is john that i should take his words over the clear teaching of scripture? and who knows, maybe i had a vision of jesus in a car accident on the highway to las vegas, and he told me to be his messenger and set the record straight. i mean, it worked for paul, right?
Are you Arachnophilia's disciple? and yet, ironically, arachnophilia is a disciple of the scripture.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
your replies are getting shorter.
no, i've been fed "the point" for 8 years Obviuosly refused to eat. no, i did. but i've lost the taste for it. see, unfortunately, as i continue to study it, it makes less and less sense.
And let me refrase that. What I mean is that they use to have to give sacrafice and now we dont cause of Jesus. All we have to do is ask. pop quiz time! q. do the jews still sacrifice animals?q. if they don't, why and when did they stop? q. if they stopped, how then do jews atone for sins? q. are god's chosen people just all going to hell?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
The Egyptians knew that they were not coming back. The text even says that the Egyptians were urgent upon them to leave. The term "borrowed" here does not imply that they were going to return the items. no, the original pretext of the whole charade was going out into the wilderness for a ceremony, from which they would return. it was this that pharoah wouldn't allow them to do, and this they were sending them to. the text would not say "lent" if they knew they wouldn't come back. seriously, read your own quote again. it's one big trick, that god himself actually plays a part in.
If you are referring to the flood in Genesis, God more accurately spared the "millions of innocent children" from the adults (Genesis 6:5): no, i was refering to passover, continuing the exodus theme.
I guess it didn't occur to you to look at it from God's perspective for a second. no, it has. and that EXACTLY the point.
God lied? Let's see your support for this? genesis 2 and 3. i'd quote it again, but i'm getting tired of this debate.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
What? You lost me here. Jesus is breaking God's law by claiming to be God even if he is, in fact, God (the son)? is jesus a man? (at least in part) is jesus a jew? (descended from jacob) if he was, then he is bound by the law, no different than any other man. why do people make GOD out to be bound by his own laws, but that jesus was NOT bound by god's laws? that makes no sense. for jesus to have not sinned, he had to have NOT SINNED.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
He can't "just" forgive us when we sin. so there is something that god cannot do? blasphemy.
Before Jesus, the sin offering was required, and it was offered in faith. Jesus forgave sins (in the instances mentioned in the gospels) because of their faith. After his death, our faith (in Jesus) is the instrument by which our sins are forgiven. i revert back to my questions. how do jews atone for sins? salvation and sacrifice are clearly NOT linked. sacrifices were given out of a personal desire to do so, not god needing dead animals. in fact, those dead animals often served the purpose of feeding the clergy. tell me, did the sanhedrin eat jesus?
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
When you can perform miracles (heal, raise people from the dead, etc.), please send me an e-mail. while we're on challenges of faith, try mark's definition of a christian on for size:
quote: go drink some bleach and then give me an e-mail.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Arachnophilia, You ask these questions as if you haven't read the bible. no, i ask these questions as if you haven't. i'm trying to demonstrate that salvation does not lay in death, but rather faith. you demonstrate a rather large misunderstanding of the judaic roots of christianity. (as does paul, i think. which is rather ironic, paul being jewish.) a jew is not "saved" by works. or faith. most that i've talked to don't even think that way. it's simply for who they are: god's chosen, and it's not in terms of being saved from anything. sticking to the law comes a form of respect god's love.
Romans 11 says: telling me to read that chapter would have been far more efficient. and i still don't like paul, nor pauline christianity.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
In very early days, animal sacrifice to the gods was supposed to be food for the gods. The gods needed humans as much as humans needed gods. Even in Leviticus, "the priest shall burn it on the altar as food offered by fire to the Lord" (3:11). there's some suggestion that sacrifices evolved sort of organically out of a way satisfy predators that would hunt the flocks and herds, and into a way to ward off and satisfy evil spirits. the verse about azazel in leviticus may be evidence of this.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Dammit,Arach, you exposed my secret plan to separate real Christians from PCs (Pretend or Pseudo-Christians). So far, I haven`t needed to use the poisoned chalice sorry, but if we we're going to play the "you're not a christian" game, i'm gonna win.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
So thats where snake handling comes from. yes. and drinking stricnine. they build up slow tolerances. so, yes, the crazies and pentecostals are strictly biblical.
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
If Jesus, who is God the Son, claimed to be God, where is the sin? because jesus was also a man, held to law of god. it is not wrong because it would be a lie; it's wrong because it detracts power from god (the father).
He did not claim to be God the Father. Remember the whole Trinity doctrine? yes, and it is biblically unsound. but that is another thread. This message has been edited by Arachnophilia, 12-16-2004 04:20 AM
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arachnophilia Member (Idle past 1372 days) Posts: 9069 From: god's waiting room Joined: |
Interesting attempt to quote mine me. you said god can't do something. how is that a quotemine? i asked you if god could just forgive sin, and you said no. look, you did it again:
God cannot just "brush off" sin because he is just and holy. It would be a violation of his nature and decrees. that, simply put, is blasphemy. god's nature is to exist. god can do whatever he wants. remember the parable of the prodigal son? what did his father do? the only thing that died in that story was dinner. the father just brushed of the son's "sin" and forgave him.
Even though you may not personally see it, all unconfessed and unrepented sin receives punishment. sure, ok. but does something need to die to satisfy god, or does he care more about the confession and repentance?
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