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Author Topic:   The "Gospel" Of John
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 9 of 215 (165801)
12-07-2004 12:16 AM


Which John are you talking about? John Zebedee? Beloved Disciple John? Acts John? John the Elder? If you bring in Revelations, you open another can of fish.

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 17 of 215 (165827)
12-07-2004 2:32 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Swift
12-07-2004 1:30 AM


Re: The one whom Jesus loved....
Welcome,Swift. If you care to stroll around the other threads, you will find quoting propaganda gets short shrift here. If there were such a thing as the Atheist`s Bible, would you accept as evidence, me quoting from it? Thus, you have to prove your point by dissecting the topic and backing it up with external evidence or convincing argument. This business of merely quoting scripture (even in a scripture discussion) will earn you few points.

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Replies to this message:
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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 21 of 215 (165849)
12-07-2004 6:28 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
12-07-2004 4:11 AM


Re: The one whom Jesus loved....
Hi, Pb. I guess isolating a Believer might be like nominating the length of a piece of string. Which branch, sect, group of Christianity do we inspect? Which of the variety of translations of the Bible do we call inerrant? Which interpretations of which Scriptures do we follow? Do we accept that interpretation of that version of that group as inerrent? Or do we do our own scholarship to see if we are correctly informed? If your scholarship makes you question your group dogma, do you try to get the group to reassess or change their doctrine, or do you accept the group`s views and submerge your own? No good saying you are guided by God or the Holy Spirit, because that`s what every other splinter group claims, and different views can`t all be right.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 50 of 215 (166335)
12-08-2004 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by arachnophilia
12-08-2004 4:48 PM


Re: The one whom Jesus loved....
Careful, Arach, questioning dogma/doctrine and detecting the senselessness of THE bible, will put you on the slippery slope to Atheism. Just takes that final leap to cross over.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 114 of 215 (167489)
12-12-2004 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by AdminJar
12-12-2004 6:49 PM


Re: Back towards John folk
S.O.P. for EvC, Jar. That`s why we pay you those enormous salaries.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 122 of 215 (167523)
12-12-2004 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by jar
12-12-2004 8:10 PM


Re: General question on John etal
To digress(as we usually do)
Black man is crying on the steps of the biggest cathedral in (say) Boston. Feller comes up and asks, 'What are you crying?'
Black man says,'They won`t let me in.'
Jesus says,' They won`t let me in, either.'

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 133 of 215 (167811)
12-13-2004 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by jar
12-13-2004 2:59 PM


Re: General question on John etal
I thought Schonfield (Those Incredible Christians) made a reasonable fist of describing the Messianic fervour that gripped the various Jewish factions leading up to the destruction Of Jerusalem. He delves into the authorship of John`s Gospel. One thing he covers that I have never seen discussed elsewhere, was the clash between Paul and the Apostolic Authority in Jerusalem, and the snide remarks Paul makes against them. Seems that he needed their recognition, but was determined to go his own way,regardless.With the levelling of Jerusalem, were the Jewish Christians so scattered that Paul`s version gained the upper hand?

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 Message 129 by jar, posted 12-13-2004 2:59 PM jar has replied

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 145 of 215 (168215)
12-14-2004 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by arachnophilia
12-14-2004 5:30 AM


Re: who am i?
quote:
Mar 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
Mar 16:18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Dammit,Arach, you exposed my secret plan to separate real Christians from PCs (Pretend or Pseudo-Christians). So far, I haven`t needed to use the poisoned chalice

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 161 of 215 (168692)
12-15-2004 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by dpardo
12-15-2004 11:47 AM


quote:
The thing is, Arachnophilia, that without Paul, what you have is Arachnophilian Christianity.
No, without Paul what you have are the Ebionites, led by the physical brother of Jesus, James.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 164 of 215 (168711)
12-15-2004 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by dpardo
12-15-2004 7:06 PM


quote:
Do they have a different gospel?
I believe they only followed the Gospel of Matthew.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Clark, posted 12-15-2004 11:25 PM Nighttrain has replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 167 of 215 (168773)
12-16-2004 12:45 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Clark
12-15-2004 11:25 PM


Re: Ebionites
Welcome, Jamska. So in the post-resurrection period, we appear to have:
---the Jewish Nazoreans (Nazarites?) who followed the apostles, including Peter, James (physical brother of Jesus)and John (the beloved disciple?)(or were they the Zebedee boys?)who may(or may not)have worshipped a divine Jesus and retained Jewish practices
---the Hellenic/Roman followers of Pauline Christianity trying to cut the ties with Jewish worship
---the Jewish Ebionites who followed the belief of a non-divine Messiah, but denied the inspiration of Paul
--- possibly the Essenes (if the DSS really refer to either the Essenes or Christianity via the Teacher of Righteousness)
---and John (via his Gospel), seeking another approach.
I think I feel a headache coming on.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 194 of 215 (169643)
12-18-2004 1:30 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by purpledawn
12-17-2004 8:30 PM


Re: John Requires Belief in Jesus
quote:
The story in John 7:53-8:11 is not in the earlier manuscripts, so it is a later addition. This also shows the book has been altered.
It might need another thread, but there is a lot of evidence that the pericope de adultera COULD have been in the earlier manuscripts.

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Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 199 of 215 (169777)
12-18-2004 7:56 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by purpledawn
12-18-2004 7:10 PM


Hi, PD, Arach, don`t you just love these circular arguments.
Edited to add
'The Bible is inerrant.'
'How do you know?'
'The Bible tells me so.'
This message has been edited by Nighttrain, 12-18-2004 07:58 PM

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