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EvC Forum ⇒ Science Forums ⇒ Dates and Dating ⇒

Hammer found in Cretaceous layer

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Author Topic:   Hammer found in Cretaceous layer
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 1 of 160 (173980)
01-05-2005 4:37 AM

Suggest this topic go into dates/dating.
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Dr. Carl E. Baugh's Doctoral Dissertation
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The Hammer
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1. Does this hammer present a problem to the current evolutionary timeline? It was found in 1934 in Cretaceous rock in Texas, which would date it 100 million years before humans came around according to the ToE.
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2. This hammer doesn't rust due to the chlorine in the iron. This doesn't have anything to do with creation/evolution, but rather how this much iron came about to have chlorine in it.
(96% iron, 2.6% chlorine and .74% sulfur ) mixture
From what I understand, this can be duplicated today on the molecular level, but it can't be mass produced. The chlorine in the iron gives it protection from corrosion.
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Pictures from the CEM site.
The London Artifact was found near London, Texas in Kimball County. The site is part of a large geographical zone called the Edwards Plateau. It primarily consists of Cretaceous rock.
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The density of the iron in a central, cross-sectional plane is shown in Photo K16. It shows the interior metal to be very pure, with no bubbles. Modern industry cannot consistently produce iron castings with this quality, as evidenced by test results that show bubbles and density variations that have caused pump and valve bodies to break.
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To verify that the hammer was made of metal, they cut into one of the beveled sides with a file. In the resulting nick, bright, shiny iron was exposed. The bright metal in the nick is still there, with no detectable corrosion. The metal hammerhead is approximately six inches (15.24cm) long with a nominal diameter of one inch.
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This message has been edited by Tal, 01-05-2005 09:34 AM
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 01-05-2005 8:34 AM Tal has replied
 Message 7 by PaulK, posted 01-05-2005 9:50 AM Tal has replied
 Message 43 by Buzsaw, posted 01-06-2005 8:27 PM Tal has not replied
 Message 128 by JonF, posted 02-02-2005 11:05 AM Tal has not replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 3 of 160 (174024)
01-05-2005 8:53 AM 		Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
01-05-2005 8:34 AM

Condensed and corrected.
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I figured the info/pictures in the forum would be a better presentation than anything I could add. But I tried.
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 01-05-2005 8:34 AM Admin has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 01-05-2005 9:16 AM Tal has replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 5 of 160 (174034)
01-05-2005 9:22 AM 		Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
01-05-2005 9:16 AM

Ok, can I post the pictures with the appropriate captions from the body of the text from the site?
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The pics by themselves don't mean much.
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 01-05-2005 9:16 AM Admin has not replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 8 of 160 (174049)
01-05-2005 9:57 AM 		Reply to: Message 7 by PaulK
01-05-2005 9:50 AM

Unless and until that is shown to be Cretaceous in origin, rather than a recent concretion the hammer poses no threat to evolutionary theory at all.
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It has been. I know he took it to the labs in NASA for analysis. Unfortunately I don't have a link for that.
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The enclosing rock contains Lower Cretaceous fossils. It is a concretionary sandstone nodule from the nearby cliff which is made up of concretionary sandstone nodules.
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This cliff is part of the Lower Cretaceous Edwards Plateau which evolutionists tell us was formed 140 million years ago
link
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Convenient to easily dismiss the subject though.
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This message has been edited by Tal, 01-05-2005 09:58 AM
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This message has been edited by Tal, 01-05-2005 10:03 AM
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by PaulK, posted 01-05-2005 9:50 AM PaulK has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by PaulK, posted 01-05-2005 10:08 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 11 by contracycle, posted 01-05-2005 10:15 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 12 by JonF, posted 01-05-2005 11:47 AM Tal has not replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 17 of 160 (174307)
01-06-2005 4:33 AM

1.
Noticing that this weathered rock had wood protruding from it,
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So you are telling me that someone jammed this hammer into the side of a cliff? The metal was completely encased. Aren't some fossils found the same way (chipping at the side of a cliff in X layer)?
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2. What about the unique metallurgy of the iron? It can only be reproduced today on the molecular level. Doesn't that kinda refute the (its just an old hammer that someone mashed into the side of a cliff) argument, since nobody in recent times could make iron of that quality (with chlorine in it no less)?
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So far I've presented you with hard facts, and all you have presented me with is ideas of how it got there, and no counter facts.
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This message has been edited by Tal, 01-06-2005 04:36 AM
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by contracycle, posted 01-06-2005 4:55 AM Tal has replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 19 of 160 (174313)
01-06-2005 5:01 AM 		Reply to: Message 18 by contracycle
01-06-2005 4:55 AM

Well have you? You are merely parrotting assertions you cannot back up. I'm not sure what "reproduced at the molecular level" means, and am not clear what the basis for believeing the hammer has unusual metallurgy either, seeing as it has not been tested by a reputable lab. Its a totally unsubstantiated claim. As you will see from the link I provided offers have been made to get it tested and these were refused.
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Battelle Laboratories analyzed the artifact and found that the metal hammer head was 96.6% iron, 0.74% sulphur, and 2.6% chlorine. No metallurgist today can alloy metallic iron with chlorine. Fabrication of this implement required technology possessed by the ancients which we cannot duplicate in today's sophisticated enterprise.
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Battelle Labs Website
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The chemistry aspect of it is that you cannot mix iron and chlorine.
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If we could duplicate this, we would all be driving around in cars made of Iron that wouldn't rust.
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This message has been edited by Tal, 01-06-2005 05:08 AM
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by contracycle, posted 01-06-2005 4:55 AM contracycle has not replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by PaulK, posted 01-06-2005 5:23 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 21 by Percy, posted 01-06-2005 9:34 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 22 by PurpleYouko, posted 01-06-2005 10:16 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 27 by crashfrog, posted 01-06-2005 11:34 AM Tal has not replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 25 of 160 (174384)
01-06-2005 11:13 AM 		Reply to: Message 24 by PurpleYouko
01-06-2005 11:05 AM

Re: let's put the hammer to rest
Purple, if it were up to me I'd definately let you, because I want to know too.
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I will do more homework on it later that requires more that simply googling "topic." Of course it will take me awhile, combat zone and all.
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And if you would like to pursue it yourself (analyzing the hammer) would you try emailing the museum? All they can tell you is no.
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This is where part of me wishes I won the lottery, then I could spend the next 12 years getting various degrees in these fields and researching this stuff myself.
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But, gotta feed the family, and college doesn't do that. And the whole GWOT thing.
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by PurpleYouko, posted 01-06-2005 11:05 AM PurpleYouko has replied
Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by PurpleYouko, posted 01-06-2005 11:17 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 29 by Percy, posted 01-06-2005 12:19 PM Tal has not replied
  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5698 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004

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Message 70 of 160 (174935)
01-08-2005 2:04 AM

*EDIT*
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I would appreciate it if you would not highjack my thread.
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If you would like to start topics on the other objects from his collection, please go start your own thread.
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While some of you don't consider this a serious subject, I do, and would appreciate you not posting if you don't have anything meaningful to add to my topic.
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Now bugger off.
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This message has been edited by Tal, 01-08-2005 03:32 AM
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Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?" And I said, "Here am I. Send me!" Isaiah 6:8
No webpage found at provided URL: www.1st-vets.us
Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by berberry, posted 01-08-2005 3:49 AM Tal has not replied
  
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