Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,818 Year: 3,075/9,624 Month: 920/1,588 Week: 103/223 Day: 1/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Why Belief?
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 31 of 220 (202241)
04-25-2005 2:27 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Mammuthus
08-25-2003 4:32 AM


funny?
Whats not funny is that you schraf, and crashfrog,,,,wait myself too seem to have blamed it all on human behavior, that there is no God.
We went to a place where we were supposed to find God, and he wasn't there.
So where is he?
And what are we doing about it?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Mammuthus, posted 08-25-2003 4:32 AM Mammuthus has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Mammuthus, posted 04-27-2005 4:22 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 32 of 220 (202245)
04-25-2005 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by riVeRraT
04-25-2005 2:07 PM


Re: Awesome
quote:
I wonder if you ask yourself, why was I brought into this life, and have to go through what I went through?
Well, asking the quastion assumes that there actually is an answer to the question; that there actually is a reason.
I don't know if there is a reason or not.
I don't think there is any way to know the answer to that question.
quote:
Why was I brought into existance? What is my purpose? Why do I even ask myself these questions?
Well, we ask those questions because we have really big, complex brains that allow us to have complex, abstract thought and self-awareness, i.e. consciousness.
As for my purpose? I decide what it is. We all do.
Anyway, thank you very much for your kind and encouraging words. It sounds like you can relate, so I also know how hard you have worked and still strive to be the sort of person that you want to be.
This message has been edited by schrafinator, 04-25-2005 01:31 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by riVeRraT, posted 04-25-2005 2:07 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 04-25-2005 2:34 PM nator has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 33 of 220 (202250)
04-25-2005 2:34 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by nator
04-25-2005 2:29 PM


Re: Awesome
And the answer is 42.
It's not the answer, its the question that you seek, wich would be what is 6x9 or something like that.
Ever read that book?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 2:29 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by nator, posted 04-25-2005 8:55 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 34 of 220 (202404)
04-25-2005 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by riVeRraT
04-25-2005 2:34 PM


Re: Awesome
Are you kidding?
I own a leather bound copy of the first four Douglas Adams books in the Hitchiker's Guide series.
I also very much liked Dirk Gentley's Holistic Detective Agency. Have you read that one?
Anyway, are you planning to see the film of THGTTG?
Opening night is this Friday, and I may have to be a big geek and go.
I have a second reason to see it sooner rather than later...
I am a huge Joss Whedon fan (Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel) and particularly of his very short-lived series called Firefly. The series was fantastic and IMHO would have been just as great, if not better, than both Buffy and Angel, but the idiots at Fox Televidion just didn't get it.
Well, Whedon got funding to turn the Firefly concept into a full length feature film called Serenity which is due to be released this September, and there is a trailer playing for it before THGTTG.
I'm all a-tingle!
{OK people - OFF-TOPIC! Stop it right here, right now. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 04-25-2005 08:06 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 04-25-2005 2:34 PM riVeRraT has not replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 35 of 220 (202875)
04-26-2005 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dan Carroll
08-19-2003 5:02 PM


The gospels tell the story of a man who was supremely good. I have never read a fiction about a man who was so perfectly righteous and worthy of praise than Jesus. Everything that he taught I have found to be true in my life and the lives of others.
Regardless of where feelings of right and wrong come from, I believe they have real value. There is a deep message from the story of Jesus that feels completely right, true, and pure. So I believe it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-19-2003 5:02 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 04-27-2005 8:52 AM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
Firebird
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 220 (202892)
04-27-2005 1:08 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dan Carroll
08-19-2003 5:02 PM


Why I Believe
1. Reasons with some acquaintance with logic
a. Because it is scary to think that mankind is without help or guidance, and is running amok overpopulating the earth and wrecking the environment. And if this is indeed the case, it won't be helped by me worrying about it.
b. I prefer to believe that there is some kind of life after this one. And if I'm wrong, I will have lived at least as happily believing, and no-one will be able to say "told you so" afterwards.
2. Real but unlogical reason
I have resisted Christian friends who tried to "save" me; it makes no sense that a little clique would be saved and all outsiders damned; this stuff tends to make me want to side with the outsiders. But the essential Christian message - love God and your neighbour as yourself - simply feels right to me, a sort of release of tension and satisfaction, like solving a mathematical equation.
So, in my case, I'm not sure that faith sustains the belief. But living optimistically in faith feels good anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-19-2003 5:02 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
Mammuthus
Member (Idle past 6475 days)
Posts: 3085
From: Munich, Germany
Joined: 08-09-2002


Message 37 of 220 (202911)
04-27-2005 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
04-25-2005 2:27 PM


Re: funny?
No, this is not correct. I am not so weak minded as to rely on how other people behave as to determine what I think is true or not. I know plenty of scientists who are absolute worthless piles of crud as people but their scientific data is sound and conclusions supported. The issue I share in common with schraf is that I have experienced that Xians who pretend to be morally and ethically superior are actually completely hypocritical and some of the worst behaved and anti-social people I have met. I therefore found the church or any organized religion to be a waste of my time. Not believing in the xian or any other god/gods is a separate issue.
quote:
So where is he?
And what are we doing about it?
He is nowhere so I am not going to do anything about it...I am also not going to look for Vishnu, unicorns, santa claus, or invisible sentient goats behind my freezer. I will continue to live and enjoy my life as I have for the last 37 years.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 04-25-2005 2:27 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by riVeRraT, posted 04-27-2005 8:39 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 416 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 38 of 220 (202946)
04-27-2005 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Mammuthus
04-27-2005 4:22 AM


Re: funny?
No, this is not correct. I am not so weak minded as to rely on how other people behave as to determine what I think is true or not. I know plenty of scientists who are absolute worthless piles of crud as people but their scientific data is sound and conclusions supported. The issue I share in common with schraf is that I have experienced that Xians who pretend to be morally and ethically superior are actually completely hypocritical and some of the worst behaved and anti-social people I have met. I therefore found the church or any organized religion to be a waste of my time. Not believing in the xian or any other god/gods is a separate issue.
Thanks for clearing that up. I agree with you completely. So does the Pastor of the church I finally found worthy of my attendance. He blames leadership in all the churches for all those things that have been happening. He also puts himself on the chopping block first. A very realistic, and refreshing thing to hear. He is open to all critisim, and considers himself no more important than the person holding the door when you enter in. We also feel that the kingdom of God is not in the church but outside the church.
As for you not believing in God, that's fine. I didn't really for 38 years, then I found him. I lived and enjoyed my life to that point, and I continue to do so to a slightly greater level. I've been tweaked a little, and some of the confusion I had about life now makes sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Mammuthus, posted 04-27-2005 4:22 AM Mammuthus has not replied

  
lost-apathy
Member (Idle past 5419 days)
Posts: 67
From: Scottsdale, Az, USA
Joined: 04-24-2005


Message 39 of 220 (202949)
04-27-2005 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dan Carroll
08-19-2003 5:02 PM


Hope is a better word. Even though i'm not religous, I can sort of understand why. Even though it isn't guarenteed to come true, you can dream as to why and how it will come true. It also gives more reason to life. It's kind of like how i want to become a famous musician. I tell myself i know I will someday and if i just pursue what I want, I will get it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-19-2003 5:02 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

  
nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
From: Ann Arbor
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 40 of 220 (202950)
04-27-2005 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Hangdawg13
04-26-2005 11:34 PM


quote:
I have never read a fiction about a man who was so perfectly righteous and worthy of praise than Jesus.
The Buddah was a pretty nice guy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by Hangdawg13, posted 04-26-2005 11:34 PM Hangdawg13 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 41 by Hangdawg13, posted 04-27-2005 2:08 PM nator has replied

  
Hangdawg13
Member (Idle past 751 days)
Posts: 1189
From: Texas
Joined: 05-30-2004


Message 41 of 220 (203029)
04-27-2005 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by nator
04-27-2005 8:52 AM


The Buddah was a pretty nice guy.
So why am I not a Buddhist?
1) There are lots of nice guys in the world; no perfect ones.
2) Buddah never claimed to be God, nor did he say if there was a god.
3) Jesus performed miracles (a few of my close friends would testify that he still does); Buddah didn't.
4) While much of Buddah's teaching is wisdom, it does not carry the same message of the Gospel. (not that this means his message is false, just that it doesn't seem complete to me)
But if we debate these points any further it will get off the question in the OP, which was what first caused me to believe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by nator, posted 04-27-2005 8:52 AM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by nator, posted 04-29-2005 8:04 AM Hangdawg13 has replied

  
mick
Member (Idle past 4987 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 42 of 220 (203051)
04-27-2005 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Dan Carroll
08-19-2003 5:02 PM


I'm an atheist now, but I used to believe in God.
I was brought up in a Jehovah's Witness family. I believed in God because I was told I had to, and because i was taken to a long brain-washing session every Sunday morning and Wednesday evening.
As I grew older, and developed a sense of my own self-esteem and independence, I made a conscious decision to consign all those years to the dustbin. What a waste of sundays and wednesdays! I truly wish i could have them back, and spend them going fishing, bird watching, playing judo, practicing the piano, or some other interesting activity. Unfortunately those Sundays mornings and Wednesday evenings were stolen from me forever, and I can never have them back.
i'm convinced that the majority of people who belive in God have the same reason that I used to have: their parents, families and peer groups told them that they had to. That's why religion is so eminently heritable. Children in Christian families tend to be Christian, and there aren't many Muslim parents with jewish kids.
mick
This message has been edited by mick, 04-27-2005 03:45 PM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Dan Carroll, posted 08-19-2003 5:02 PM Dan Carroll has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Jackal25, posted 04-28-2005 2:20 PM mick has not replied
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 04-28-2005 2:43 PM mick has not replied

  
Jackal25
Inactive Member


Message 43 of 220 (203396)
04-28-2005 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by mick
04-27-2005 3:42 PM


mick writes:
i'm convinced that the majority of people who belive in God have the same reason that I used to have: their parents, families and peer groups told them that they had to. That's why religion is so eminently heritable. Children in Christian families tend to be Christian, and there aren't many Muslim parents with jewish kids.
I couldnt disagree more. I personally became a Christian while my family and I would say 80% of my friends at the time were not. To say the majority believe in God for that reason is a far stretch. A lot of Christians had to learn the hard way not growing up in a Christian family. I personally think that not growing up in a Christian family has showed me the other side and I will never go back.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by mick, posted 04-27-2005 3:42 PM mick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by nator, posted 04-29-2005 8:06 AM Jackal25 has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 220 (203402)
04-28-2005 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by mick
04-27-2005 3:42 PM


When in Rome...
Hi, Mick. I will agree with you that children often take on the belief of their parents. In a wider context, people usually adopt the religion of the culture. Of course I am biased, because I am a Christian. I believe that I became a Christian not due to education or indoctorination so much as through a spiritual impartation.
Much of my theology is more of a confirmation from within rather than something learned from the Bible or a preacher.
Many Christians have had similar experiences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by mick, posted 04-27-2005 3:42 PM mick has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by crashfrog, posted 04-28-2005 6:07 PM Phat has replied

  
crashfrog
Member (Idle past 1467 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 45 of 220 (203431)
04-28-2005 6:07 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
04-28-2005 2:43 PM


I believe that I became a Christian not due to education or indoctorination so much as through a spiritual impartation.
Much of my theology is more of a confirmation from within
Just so you know - that feeling you get "within"? That feeling of certainty? That's what indoctrination, particularly cultural indoctrination, feels like.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 04-28-2005 2:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Phat, posted 04-29-2005 3:57 AM crashfrog has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024