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Author | Topic: A personal question | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: What makes homosexuality immoral?
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I dunno, Gene. Lots of Christianity-based sodomy laws out there which technically affect married couples as well as gay men.
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Homosexuality is about much more than sex, Gene. It is no more or less about sex than heterosexuality. (Wait a minute...I'm talking to a young man in his early twenties, and I am telling him that there is more to life than hormones...what am I thinking?)
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nator Member (Idle past 2196 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Coming from a Catholic background, I could tell you some things about what they told the young kids about contraception and other birth control, and about sex in general. A lot of us (especially the girls) end up with terrible guilt and repressed sexual expression.
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compmage Member (Idle past 5179 days) Posts: 601 From: South Africa Joined: |
quote: As far as I am concerned, children should be taught how to think critically and how to reason properly and then allowed to choose their own path. Teaching a child your version of right from wrong is easier than teaching it how to reason right from wrong. Hell, many adults can't always tell you why they think something is wrong, it just is. ------------------compmage
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: I remember, on another board, when this topic came up someone posted a set of guidelines from the 19th century for newlyweds on how the bride could avoid having sex with her new husband. It would have been quite funny if they weren't truly serious about it. I've been trying to find this list so I could post it here so you could see what I mean.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
I think parents should raise their children, not the government. That includes raising them however they want.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]Coming from a Catholic background, I could tell you some things about what they told the young kids about contraception and other birth control, and about sex in general.[/QUOTE]
[/B] I've seen Catholic fliers about contraception. But the brutal fact of the matter is that frankly I don't care what the Catholic stance is, they don't speak for non-Catholics.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B](Wait a minute...I'm talking to a young man in his early twenties, and I am telling him that there is more to life than hormones...what am I thinking?)[/QUOTE]
[/B] Hey Schraf, how much LOWER do you intend to stoop? True I had respect for you but a few more remarks like that and it's going to be flying out the window. Maybe you should run along and start harrassing someone else over their personal beliefs and their age...
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]Lots of Christianity-based sodomy laws out there which technically affect married couples as well as gay men.[/QUOTE]
[/B] I don't think the government has a right to pass laws about sexual practices.
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John Inactive Member |
quote: I might be able to answer that if I knew the will of this hypothetical creator. He/she/it could have built homosexuality into the creation. Perhaps this creator had more in mind than reproduction when he/she/it invented orgasm.
quote: Actually, if I recall correctly, I said "not that harmful"
quote: The same right you have to accept it and to defend it. Morality is subjective. This isn't the same as saying that ideas and behavior are beyond criticism. Debate is how we learn things. It may be slow and painful but it the best we've got.
quote: I understand your version, Gene. It is all around me. And it makes no sense. It is a worldview based on nothing. Why base a worldview on not one shred of evidence? The logic involved is the same logic you yourself criticise when dealing with creationists. ------------------http://www.hells-handmaiden.com
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nos482 Inactive Member |
quote: What if the family believes that siblings should marry to "keep the bloodline pure"? Incest is a problem. Just recently there was a major kiddie porn ring broken up and many of the children were being used by their very own parents. Are you saying that this is ok and the law shouldn't have interfered in them rasing their children their way? [This message has been edited by nos482, 10-24-2002]
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nos482 Inactive Member |
Originally posted by gene90:
I've seen Catholic fliers about contraception. But the brutal fact of the matter is that frankly I don't care what the Catholic stance is, they don't speak for non-Catholics. But they do speak for the vast majority of Christians since most Christians are RC.
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]I already addressed your war analogy.[/QUOTE]
[/B] Then see the hazing/initiation analogy.
[QUOTE][B]I said that the bonds of war happen because people are coming together to fight a common foe, not simply because shooting occurs.[/QUOTE] [/B] So your position is that if people in war weren't getting killed those bonds would be just as strong?
[QUOTE][B]So, are you saying that your morals are relatively arbitrary[/QUOTE] [/B] All morals are arbitrary because everyone at some point decides their own.
[QUOTE][B]and even though you think that homosexuality doesn't harm anyone, it is still immoral, because the Bible says so? Then I would say that your position lacks reason.[/QUOTE] [/B] That's fine for your personal opinion but what basis do you have that my position lacks reason because (you assume) that it is based upon the Bible? How are your atheistic morals any better than my theistic morals? You're also begging the question when you simply equate Bible = lack of reason. (And incidentally, I haven't even read the Bible for this moral perspective. Does that make it any difference? Because I think my moral values are correct, and I think the reason is obvious...so obvious in fact I don't *need* scriptures for it)
[QUOTE][B]no matter how illogical and unreasonable it is?[/QUOTE] [/B] We'll discuss that after you prove it is "illogical" and "unreasonable".
[QUOTE][B]I certainly did. [/QUOTE] [/B] Yeah but that doesn't surprise. After all, you clearly have an axe to grind. I've seen evidence of that time and again.
[QUOTE][B] (Homophobia might be too strong a word for your views, I'm not sure.)[/QUOTE] [/B] Yet another cheap shot. Again, I ask the question: how low are you going to stoop? I have another question: is the rest of this post even worth responding to?
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gene90 Member (Idle past 3849 days) Posts: 1610 Joined: |
[QUOTE][B]Actually, if I recall correctly, I said "not that harmful"[/QUOTE]
[/B] Actually what you said in Post 115 of this thread was:
[QUOTE][B] Homosexuality could be due to the extreme similarity of the sexes. It could be that it provides some positive social bonding. It could be that it simply isn't harmful.[/QUOTE] [/B] Which is patently false. Sex, whether hetero or homo, can very well be harmful.
[QUOTE][B]The same right you have to accept it and to defend it.[/QUOTE] [/B] So then do you have a right to harrass Mormons on the street? Or wouldn't that be religious intolerance? Would you drive up to a gas station, and if you saw a Christian fish on a vehicle there, confront the driver about his religious preferences and tell him about how unreasonable he is?
[QUOTE][B]Morality is subjective.[/QUOTE] [/B] Then what right have you to criticize my moral values?
[QUOTE][B]And it makes no sense. It is a worldview based on nothing.[/QUOTE] [/B] Only if you presuppose there is no God, just as I presuppose there is.
[QUOTE][B]The logic involved is the same logic you yourself criticise when dealing with creationists.[/QUOTE] [/B] The logic I criticize dealing with Creationists is the same logic I criticize coming from atheists, only they push different ideaologies with it. I've debated both, and the arguments are often almost identical. "There's no transitional fossils!" "There's no evidence of God!" [This message has been edited by gene90, 10-24-2002]
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