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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures
coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 122 of 304 (205357)
05-05-2005 5:02 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by PaulK
05-05-2005 3:16 PM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
I am beginning to think that the way this forum is working right now is completely fair. Although the those on the evo side are held to a higher standard, the overwhelming majority of the people that have been permanently banned were those from the creo side. Off the top of my head, I can only name 2 people from the evo side that were banned permanently. One claimed to be a rocket scientist and the other claimed to be a physicist. You know who I'm talking about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by PaulK, posted 05-05-2005 3:16 PM PaulK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 124 by nator, posted 05-05-2005 5:06 PM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 125 of 304 (205362)
05-05-2005 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by Faith
05-05-2005 5:03 PM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
Faith writes:
...Fundy YEC I'm rare enough for someone to want to keep me around...
Actually, there are more creos than evos around. Because of the high standards this forum has, the majority of the creos that stumble into this site from time to time often find themselves challenged by real genuine scientists who actually knew more than 2 words from a high school biology text book.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by Faith, posted 05-05-2005 5:03 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 05-05-2005 5:57 PM coffee_addict has replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 136 of 304 (205476)
05-06-2005 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Faith
05-05-2005 5:57 PM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
Faith writes:
myself writes:
Actually, there are more creos than evos around. Because of the high standards this forum has, the majority of the creos that stumble into this site from time to time often find themselves challenged by real genuine scientists who actually knew more than 2 words from a high school biology text book.
This is exactly the kind of rude crap creos are greeted with here. If you want a certain standard of scientific knowledge then establish that standard and don't admit anyone who doesn't meet it, instead of attacking people for their efforts. This is uncivilized behavior, and actually, from what I've seen of many creo posts here, completely unwarranted. This is just a typical piece of evo arrogance.
You misunderstood my intentions.
It is not an insult to point out if a person is ignorant of something. For example, I have a background in physics so I consider myself to have at least the basics of certain knowledge in the disciplines of physics, like optics, E&M, and quantum mechanics. I can't tell you how many times I have stumbled into people that have the simplest of simple understanding of these fields but are very opinionated about them. The thing is more often than not they are completely wrong on the fundamental levels. Is it too much to say to them that they do not grasp certain important concepts of physics for them to have valid opinion on the matter?
The scientific method requires that you question and question the person you are talking to. Evidence is always required. Assumptions, especially unsupported ones, are always looked down upon. Conclusions almost always come after the evidence, not before.
It might interest you to know that in the scientific community, we question each other all the time. When someone claims something, almost immediately everyone else jumps onto the person and demands for evidence. It is a very rigorous field, unlike what science fiction movies often portray.
My observation tells me that you, and many creationists like yourself, often become irritated when asked for support for assertions. This is because, as I understand it, in the normal world a simple "I heard somewhere that..." and "did you know that..." is often enough for everyone to take your words at face value. Not to do so is a sign of disrespect, and I suspect that this is how you and many other creationists feel. What you don't understand is in science even the most respected scientists are repeated asked by everyone else to back up their assertions.
For example, Moose is a geologist of some sort (please correct me, moose, if I am mistaken). If he makes a claim that there is a cavern 20 miles wide at 30 miles below New York city, I can assure you that he will very happily present his evidence when asked "how do you know?" rather than become insulted for people not taking his words at face value.
So, what I said was not meant as an insult. You must understand that most creos are not scientists and therefore are not used to being scrutinized by their peers. In science, we are used to this.
I hope that cleared it up a bit.
Added by edit.
Some more thoughts.
Here is another example that is a little more clear as to the difference between academics and what we would call regular people.
I often go to listen to preachers of various denominations just to understand christianity a little more. Almost all of the time, preachers would preach their messages without giving direct explanations to why, especially on moral issues. And as I understand it, people usually just take their words without question.
When I do physics problems on the board for my students, I make damn sure that they understand everything that I do. Sometimes I make mistakes and some would point the mistakes out. I can't remember ever feeling insulted by being corrected by them or being asked the question "why?" In fact, sometimes some students would ask questions that I couldn't answer off the top of my head. What do I do? I just look up the info.
A long time ago, one of my professors told us that the integral of e^(x*x)dx from negative infinity to possitive infinity is squareroot of pi. At first we took his word for it, but after a while it became apparent that none of us could actually prove it. We asked him and he actually didn't know how to prove it either. He looked up the proof and relayed it to us later on. As I remember it, he smiled and laughed the whole time. No grudge.
If you want to discuss about science in a science forum like this one, try not to be insulted if people want you to support your assertions. This is why people lost their patience with you.
PS- Look for posts by desdamona.
This message has been edited by Troy, 05-06-2005 01:50 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Faith, posted 05-05-2005 5:57 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Faith, posted 05-06-2005 11:16 AM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 139 of 304 (205517)
05-06-2005 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by berberry
05-06-2005 3:05 AM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
But this place is owned by Percy and paid by Percy. There are certain things that I can't/won't do when I step into my friend's house. However, it wouldn't bother me if he does those things because it's his own damn house.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by berberry, posted 05-06-2005 3:05 AM berberry has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by arachnophilia, posted 05-06-2005 6:58 AM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 164 of 304 (205724)
05-06-2005 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by CK
05-06-2005 7:12 PM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
Hey GK, AKA CK, while it is apparent that you have many useful things to share with us, I really think that you have made your point about/to Faith. The last thing we need is another "I know you are but what am I..." and "is too.. is not... is too... is not..."
Thanks.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by CK, posted 05-06-2005 7:12 PM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by CK, posted 05-06-2005 7:28 PM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 177 of 304 (206115)
05-08-2005 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by nator
05-07-2005 11:51 PM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
I wonder how Faith is going to reply to all the posts you responded to her, considering that she is currently suspended.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by nator, posted 05-07-2005 11:51 PM nator has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by nator, posted 05-09-2005 8:00 AM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 179 of 304 (206124)
05-08-2005 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by AdminNosy
05-08-2005 1:55 PM


Re: Lying
Isn't it better to accuse a person of lying than to accuse him of being stupid?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by AdminNosy, posted 05-08-2005 1:55 PM AdminNosy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 180 by AdminJar, posted 05-08-2005 2:18 PM coffee_addict has replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 181 of 304 (206129)
05-08-2005 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by AdminJar
05-08-2005 2:18 PM


Re: Lying
What about posting a link to a site that says "you are an idiot, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha..."?
Ok, sorry, I'll stop now.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by AdminJar, posted 05-08-2005 2:18 PM AdminJar has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 249 of 304 (209032)
05-17-2005 12:47 PM


Please stop suspending/restricting/banning/booting/kicking...
people as often as using your hand to touch something. You guys have been suspending/restricting more people the last couple months than the last year or so.

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by berberry, posted 05-17-2005 4:44 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 251 by Parasomnium, posted 05-17-2005 5:51 PM coffee_addict has replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 253 of 304 (209132)
05-17-2005 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 251 by Parasomnium
05-17-2005 5:51 PM


Re: Please stop suspending/restricting/banning/booting/kicking...
See? Seven of Nine agreed with me, which mean I was right.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by Parasomnium, posted 05-17-2005 5:51 PM Parasomnium has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 262 of 304 (209350)
05-18-2005 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by AdminNosy
05-18-2005 10:55 AM


Re: endless discussions
I'd have to side with buz on this one.
It says "Is the evidence of the divine apparent in the design of nature itself?"
The last time I checked, divine equates to the supernatural.
{Rescaled grapic to "100%", to restore page width to normal. - Adminnemooseus}
This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 05-18-2005 12:43 PM
This message has been edited by Admin, 05-18-2005 01:34 PM

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by NosyNed, posted 05-18-2005 1:37 PM coffee_addict has replied
 Message 271 by AdminSylas, posted 05-18-2005 10:20 PM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 265 of 304 (209472)
05-18-2005 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by NosyNed
05-18-2005 1:37 PM


Re: ID as faith
But if he is causing any disruption in the science forums, the disruptions are not that noticable. I say give him full access and let the members and buz work it out.
There are creos far worse than buz *ahem... faith, limbo, chris, ahem ahem* when it comes to understanding what's science and what's not. You can't limit them all!
If this trend continues, I will be forced to become a proponent of ID/creationism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by NosyNed, posted 05-18-2005 1:37 PM NosyNed has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Buzsaw, posted 05-18-2005 9:06 PM coffee_addict has not replied
 Message 277 by Parasomnium, posted 05-19-2005 5:11 AM coffee_addict has not replied

coffee_addict
Member (Idle past 477 days)
Posts: 3645
From: Indianapolis, IN
Joined: 03-29-2004


Message 279 of 304 (209649)
05-19-2005 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by AdminSylas
05-19-2005 12:42 AM


Re: endless discussions
AS writes:
One view is that we should not apply any restrictions at all, and that you should be free to say anything you please and apply any line of argument you like in the science forums. Most of your support is of this kind.
Not necessarily. As is probably well known, I am one who is very easily irritated by pseudo-scientific arguments and usually don't waste time with them. What I do believe in is that arguments should not always be strictly held to the same standard in the science forums.
If anyone remembers Admin's most spectacular post of all times (traffic laws), the standards should be held to same degree, more or less. We can see buz as the 18 year old who never got past the "I can drive as fast as I want without any danger" attitude of a 16 year old. Sometimes we get frustrated with him for not slowing down and obeying traffic laws. Sometimes it irritates us so because he refuses to put on his seatbelt. But by golly, why revolk his driving priviledges when you can give him tickets after tickets after tickets and fine the hell out of his parents?
While I lost hope on some people, buz is certainly not one of them.
Like I said before, I think it is better than this matter be dealt with by letting the members and buz work it out. The admins can continue to give him tickets and fines for every traffic law violation.
PS In case anyone wants to say that buz's attitude is like a drunk driver, I would respond that insulting other members is drunk driving. Buz only drive above the speed limit and not have his seatbelt on.
Added by edit.
Another thing is I'm just afraid to miss something good that he has to say. Buz's point of view is certainly different than most people.
This message has been edited by GAW-Snow, 05-19-2005 11:37 AM

This message is a reply to:
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